Philosophy Now Forum

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Mon Apr 17, 2023 7:58 am If you say you know God.... you don't.

I'd better start saying it then.

Age wrote: ↑Mon Apr 17, 2023 3:55 am

Harbal wrote: ↑Sun Apr 16, 2023 11:55 pm

Age wrote: ↑Sun Apr 16, 2023 11:44 pm
So you NEED to be 'forced' to become OPEN, right?

I'm not aware of ever having any communication with God, but if you have anything to say on the matter, please just say it.

Okay, WHEN you LEARN and UNDERSTAND WHAT and WHO the God word refers to, EXACTLY, then, and ONLY THEN you WILL FIND OUT and SEE that 'God' AND 'you' have ACTUALLY BEEN COMMUNICATING, all along.

God is a thought.

Only when the thought of God, aka a concept known, comes into mind, is an attachment to the concept formed, becomes known. Identification with 'thought' becomes ( I know something)

Insofar as any concept is known as and when it arises in the mind, one with the knowing.
But here, both the knower and the known are arising as '' one knowing '' in the exact same instant of recognition, via memory.

Through the constant demand for knowledge using memory, knowing maintains an illusory continuity of identity. But memory is made of dead stuff. It's not the living now.

Here, right now, is this natural living aliveness, prior to any 'thought' or 'concept'. This is simply the pure naturalness of life, that does not require to be 'known' in order to function, life is always functioning, all alone, all by itself, just as the breath breathes all by itself, even during the unconscious moments of sleep, and the heart pumps, and the grass grows all by itself.

It is 'thought' that creates the illusion of separation, where there is none in the natural world.

Harbal wrote: ↑Mon Apr 17, 2023 8:04 am

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Mon Apr 17, 2023 7:58 am If you say you know God.... you don't.

I'd better start saying it then.

Age wrote: ↑Mon Apr 17, 2023 12:53 am

Sculptor wrote: ↑Sun Apr 16, 2023 3:31 pm

Age wrote: ↑Sun Apr 16, 2023 12:46 pm

SO, WHY do 'you' NOT TELL ALL of 'us' here what 'atheists' ARE, EXACTLY?

THEN 'we' can SEE what 'you' 'tar' 'atheists' WITH, EXACTLY.



HOW ABOUT 'you' DEFINE 'atheist' here for 'us' 'now'. So, then EVERY one who READS what 'you' WRITE WILL KNOW, FOR SURE, what an 'atheist' IS, EXACTLY, correct?



VERY, VERY GOOD QUESTION "sculptor". So, WHAT DO 'you' MEAN when 'you' USE the 'god' word, AND when and if 'you' USE the 'God' word?



Can you POINT us to WHERE ANY one HAS ACTUALLY SAID or IMPLIED that a so-called "atheist" has 'faith'?

If yes, then WILL 'you'?

If no, then WHY NOT?


Will you name ANY one who CLAIMS 'this' here?


EXACTLY. Now, 'this' ALL DEPENDS on IF and WHEN one is 'NOT BELIEVING' whether they are 'DISBELIEVING' or NOT, AS WELL.

And it is ONLY through Truly OPEN and Honest DISCUSSIONS 'we' can FIND OUT, and thus KNOW, 'WHO', EXACTLY, IS 'DIS/BELIEVING' and (in) WHAT, EXACTLY.

For example, do 'you', "sculptor", BELIEVE 'god' and/or 'God' does NOT exist, or, DISBELIEVE that 'god' and/or 'God' does exist?

Or, are 'you', "sculptor", OPEN to the Fact that God could EXIST?



How about INSTEAD of TELLING 'us' what the word 'atheism' IMPLIES 'you' TELL 'us' what the word 'atheism' ACTUALLY MEANS and/or REFERS TO, to you?

Fucking hell. Keep your hair on.
Do you understand the idea of perspective?

Yes.

Sculptor wrote: ↑Sun Apr 16, 2023 3:31 pm That some people see things differently from their own POV?

I thought that it was ALREADY OBVIOUSLY KNOWN that ALL of 'you', adult human beings, SEE 'things' DIFFERENTLY, and 'you' SEE 'things' DIFFERENTLY BECAUSE 'you' ALL HAVE DIFFERENT points of views, which have ALL come BECAUSE 'you' have ALL have just HAD DIFFERENT 'past experiences'. But maybe in the days when this is being written 'this' is NOT ALREADY KNOWN, by some.

By the way, was NOT previously AWARE that there were some people like 'you', "sculptor" who thought or BELIEVED that ONLY SOME people SEE 'things' DIFFERENTLY, BECAUSE OF and FROM thier OWN points of view. I thought that it OBVIOUS that ALL people have DIFFERENT views and DIFFERENT points of views.

Sculptor wrote: ↑Sun Apr 16, 2023 3:31 pm Some Catholics call Protestants atheists; some call Muslims atheists; Christians would call Hindus heathen atheists.

And some, like 'you', give names to individual human beings, which they are ACTUALLY NOT. See there are people like 'you' that call "others" names like 'catholics", 'protestants", "muslims", "christians", "atheists", and/or"theists", which are ALL False, Wrong, AND Incorrect names and terms for WHAT 'you', human beings, REALLY ARE.

BUT, they are the 'points of views' that you 'now' HAVE.

Sculptor wrote: ↑Sun Apr 16, 2023 3:31 pm Literally an atheist is a person who has no belief in god. "A-" theists, means "Not".

So, if "a-theist' means 'NOT', and those so-called "theists" BELIEVE (in) God AND BELIEVE God exists, then these so-called "atheists" do NOT BELIEVE (in) God and do NOT BELIEVE God exists, right?

If no, then WHAT IS 'right' here?

ALSO, what you CLAIM to be 'right' here just your OWN 'point of view', which IS DIFFERENT FROM "other's" 'points of views", or, is what you CLAIM to be 'right' here what EVERY one should AGREE WITH, ADHERE TO, and FOLLOW?

Now, and furthermore, if these so-called "atheists" have NO BELIEF in 'God', then what IS this 'God' 'Thing', EXACTLY, which 'they', supposedly, have NO BELIEF AT ALL 'in'?

Sculptor wrote: ↑Sun Apr 16, 2023 3:31 pm It is in the same class of grammatical constructions as. ahistorical
achronological
apathetic
asynchronous
amorphous
amoral

ALREADY KNOWN.

Then why ask?

What you appear to be COMPLETELY MISSING or MISUNDERSTANDING is that so-called "atheists" can ALSO BELIEVE that God does NOT exist and/or DISBELIEVE that God does or even could exist.

See, as I EXPLAINED BEFORE, it ALL depends on the ACTUAL views, or points of views, one HAS.

you "pigeon holing" ALL types of people INTO one PARTICULAR ' ame' and CLAIMING that ALL the people in that, Wrongly named anyway, 'group' are going to think, LOOK AT and SEE 'things' the EXACT Same is NEVER going TO WORK.

Sculptor wrote: ↑Sun Apr 16, 2023 3:31 pm And that is the only thing that all atheists have in common; not believing in "god" whatever the F that might be.

So, to you, ALL of these human beings, who have been 'grouped' together as one and who have been labelled "atheists", ALL 'not believe' IN some 'thing', which they have ABSOLUTELY NO IDEA NOR CLUE as to WHO NOR WHAT that 'Thing' even IS, EXACTLY, correct?

'NOT BELIEVING' 'in' 'things' in which one has absolutely NO idea NOR CLUE ABOUT, to me, seems like a rather FOOLISH and Truly ABSURD and STUPID 'thing' TO DO. But as I have said before, EACH to their OWN.

Sculptor wrote: ↑Sun Apr 16, 2023 3:31 pm PS Enjoy this brief respite - I normally have you on ignore with Dontaskme

HOW do you KNOW WHEN to take me OFF 'ignore'?

And, WHY would 'you' even take 'me' OFF 'ignore'?

Because sometimes I see your ranting misconceptions on other people's posts, that I feel you might benefit from me addressing.
So far nothing I say ever gets through to you.

Oh, and by the way, that is: if 'I' am NOT on 'ignore' 'now', are 'you', "sculptor", one of these so-called "atheist" 'things'?

Um?
Keep taking the meds.
If you are on clozapine, make sure you get your blood tests.

[quote=Dontaskme post_id=636113 time=1681716532 user_id=12017]
[quote=Age post_id=636094 time=1681700124 user_id=16237]
[quote=Harbal post_id=636058 time=1681685733 user_id=9107]

I'm not aware of ever having any communication with God, but if you have anything to say on the matter, please just say it.
[/quote]

Okay, WHEN you LEARN and UNDERSTAND WHAT and WHO the God word refers to, EXACTLY, then, and ONLY THEN you WILL FIND OUT and SEE that 'God' AND 'you' have ACTUALLY BEEN COMMUNICATING, all along.
[/quote]

God is a thought.[/quote]

It could ALSO be SAID and ARGUED that EVERY 'thing' ELSE is ALSO 'a thought'.

The word God, Its conception, and EVERY OTHER word and their conceptions, may well exist 'IN thought', but what the words, themselves, are meaning and/or referring to is NOT 'a thought'.

ALL words have 'meaning/s', and ARE POINTING TO particular 'things', which NOT 'thoughts', themselves.

There is ONLY ONE 'thing' that IS 'a thought', and 'it' IS CERTAINLY NOT God.
[quote=Dontaskme post_id=636113 time=1681716532 user_id=12017]
Only when the thought of God, aka a concept known, comes into mind, is an attachment to the concept formed, becomes known. Identification with 'thought' becomes ( I know something).[/quote]

There are at least five 'issues' here, which NEED CLARIFICATION and/or EXPLAINING FIRST, BEFORE I would begin on this.
[quote=Dontaskme post_id=636113 time=1681716532 user_id=12017]
Insofar as any concept is known as and when it arises in the mind, one with the knowing.
But here, both the knower and the known are arising as '' one knowing '' in the exact same instant of recognition, via memory.

Through the constant demand for knowledge using memory, knowing maintains an illusory continuity of identity. But memory is made of dead stuff. It's not the living now.

Here, right now, is this natural living aliveness, prior to any 'thought' or 'concept'. This is simply the pure naturalness of life, that does not require to be 'known' in order to function, life is always functioning, all alone, all by itself, just as the breath breathes all by itself, even during the unconscious moments of sleep, and the heart pumps, and the grass grows all by itself.

It is 'thought' that creates the illusion of separation, where there is none in the natural world.
[/quote]

WHY do you say, 'natural world' when there is ONLY One?

Sculptor wrote: ↑Mon Apr 17, 2023 11:09 am

Age wrote: ↑Mon Apr 17, 2023 12:53 am

Sculptor wrote: ↑Sun Apr 16, 2023 3:31 pm

Fucking hell. Keep your hair on.
Do you understand the idea of perspective?

Yes.

Sculptor wrote: ↑Sun Apr 16, 2023 3:31 pm That some people see things differently from their own POV?

I thought that it was ALREADY OBVIOUSLY KNOWN that ALL of 'you', adult human beings, SEE 'things' DIFFERENTLY, and 'you' SEE 'things' DIFFERENTLY BECAUSE 'you' ALL HAVE DIFFERENT points of views, which have ALL come BECAUSE 'you' have ALL have just HAD DIFFERENT 'past experiences'. But maybe in the days when this is being written 'this' is NOT ALREADY KNOWN, by some.

By the way, was NOT previously AWARE that there were some people like 'you', "sculptor" who thought or BELIEVED that ONLY SOME people SEE 'things' DIFFERENTLY, BECAUSE OF and FROM thier OWN points of view. I thought that it OBVIOUS that ALL people have DIFFERENT views and DIFFERENT points of views.

Sculptor wrote: ↑Sun Apr 16, 2023 3:31 pm Some Catholics call Protestants atheists; some call Muslims atheists; Christians would call Hindus heathen atheists.

And some, like 'you', give names to individual human beings, which they are ACTUALLY NOT. See there are people like 'you' that call "others" names like 'catholics", 'protestants", "muslims", "christians", "atheists", and/or"theists", which are ALL False, Wrong, AND Incorrect names and terms for WHAT 'you', human beings, REALLY ARE.

BUT, they are the 'points of views' that you 'now' HAVE.

Sculptor wrote: ↑Sun Apr 16, 2023 3:31 pm Literally an atheist is a person who has no belief in god. "A-" theists, means "Not".

So, if "a-theist' means 'NOT', and those so-called "theists" BELIEVE (in) God AND BELIEVE God exists, then these so-called "atheists" do NOT BELIEVE (in) God and do NOT BELIEVE God exists, right?

If no, then WHAT IS 'right' here?

ALSO, what you CLAIM to be 'right' here just your OWN 'point of view', which IS DIFFERENT FROM "other's" 'points of views", or, is what you CLAIM to be 'right' here what EVERY one should AGREE WITH, ADHERE TO, and FOLLOW?

Now, and furthermore, if these so-called "atheists" have NO BELIEF in 'God', then what IS this 'God' 'Thing', EXACTLY, which 'they', supposedly, have NO BELIEF AT ALL 'in'?

Sculptor wrote: ↑Sun Apr 16, 2023 3:31 pm It is in the same class of grammatical constructions as. ahistorical
achronological
apathetic
asynchronous
amorphous
amoral

ALREADY KNOWN.

Then why ask?

OBVIOUSLY you HAVE COMPLETELY MISUNDERSTOOD, ONCE AGAIN.

Sculptor wrote: ↑Mon Apr 17, 2023 11:09 am

What you appear to be COMPLETELY MISSING or MISUNDERSTANDING is that so-called "atheists" can ALSO BELIEVE that God does NOT exist and/or DISBELIEVE that God does or even could exist.

See, as I EXPLAINED BEFORE, it ALL depends on the ACTUAL views, or points of views, one HAS.

you "pigeon holing" ALL types of people INTO one PARTICULAR ' ame' and CLAIMING that ALL the people in that, Wrongly named anyway, 'group' are going to think, LOOK AT and SEE 'things' the EXACT Same is NEVER going TO WORK.

Sculptor wrote: ↑Sun Apr 16, 2023 3:31 pm And that is the only thing that all atheists have in common; not believing in "god" whatever the F that might be.

So, to you, ALL of these human beings, who have been 'grouped' together as one and who have been labelled "atheists", ALL 'not believe' IN some 'thing', which they have ABSOLUTELY NO IDEA NOR CLUE as to WHO NOR WHAT that 'Thing' even IS, EXACTLY, correct?

'NOT BELIEVING' 'in' 'things' in which one has absolutely NO idea NOR CLUE ABOUT, to me, seems like a rather FOOLISH and Truly ABSURD and STUPID 'thing' TO DO. But as I have said before, EACH to their OWN.

Sculptor wrote: ↑Sun Apr 16, 2023 3:31 pm PS Enjoy this brief respite - I normally have you on ignore with Dontaskme

HOW do you KNOW WHEN to take me OFF 'ignore'?

And, WHY would 'you' even take 'me' OFF 'ignore'?

Because sometimes I see your ranting misconceptions on other people's posts, that I feel you might benefit from me addressing.
So far nothing I say ever gets through to you.

LOL if only 'you' KNEW "sculptor". If ONLY 'you' KNEW

Sculptor wrote: ↑Mon Apr 17, 2023 11:09 am

Oh, and by the way, that is: if 'I' am NOT on 'ignore' 'now', are 'you', "sculptor", one of these so-called "atheist" 'things'?

Um?
Keep taking the meds.
If you are on clozapine, make sure you get your blood tests.

So, as we can CLEARLY SEE, you are NOT ABLE TO back up and support your OWN previous CLAIMS, NOR are you ABLE TO REFUTE and COUNTER my CLAIMS.

But we can CLEARLY SEE that you ARE ABLE TO 'TRY TO' ridicule the "other" here in discussions.

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Mon Apr 17, 2023 7:45 am The answer to every question is the space between the question and the answer. The distance is pure illusion.

You know — yes. YES!

The scales are falling from my eyes.

And every question’s answer is also the question’s negation. And as you well know a negation is just as much an affirmation!

So everything turns in beautiful circles!

Don’t tell me we could never connect!

::: enters samadhi :::

Here, right now, is this natural living aliveness, prior to any 'thought' or 'concept'. This is simply the pure naturalness of life, that does not require to be 'known' in order to function, life is always functioning, all alone, all by itself, just as the breath breathes all by itself, even during the unconscious moments of sleep, and the heart pumps, and the grass grows all by itself.

Plagiarism!

Alexis Jacobi wrote: ↑Mon Apr 17, 2023 12:24 pm

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Mon Apr 17, 2023 7:45 am The answer to every question is the space between the question and the answer. The distance is pure illusion.

You know — yes. YES!

The scales are falling from my eyes.

And every question’s answer is also the question’s negation. And as you well know a negation is just as much an affirmation!

So everything turns in beautiful circles!

Don’t tell me we could never connect!

::: enters samadhi :::

On the human level, the conditioned state of duality...the mental sphere, I personally (ego) (role player) ( the pretender) feel no connection with you whatsoever.




[ On the absolute level, there is no separation, nothing to connect to or disconnect from, where everything and any thing is allowed to be, happen freely without will or intention, is all inclusive of belief or disbelief. Is, all pervading, non-judgmental, withstanding, enduring, everlasting, unchanging true pure empty infinite space of real unconditional love. ]




.

Alexis Jacobi wrote: ↑Mon Apr 17, 2023 12:30 pm

Plagiarism!

Roger copy that!

If you want to talk about original author of words, then name the very first person that was born, and while your at it, tell me from what womb did that very first person who was born come from? and where did the first human womb come from?

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Mon Apr 17, 2023 12:50 pmOn the absolute level, there is no separation, nothing to connect to or disconnect from, where everything and any thing is allowed to be, happen freely without will or intention, is all inclusive of belief or disbelief. Is, all pervading, non-judgmental, withstanding, enduring, everlasting, unchanging true pure empty infinite space of real unconditional love.

Well there you have it. See, you just need to get to and remain on that absolute level. A much purer version of gobbledygook results. I’ve always preferred psychobabble of the absolute sort to its low-level ‘human’ variety.

Alexis Jacobi wrote: ↑Sun Apr 16, 2023 2:50 pm
Drunk (in a manner of speaking) on their ‘power’ they revolt against structures in ideas (and my reference points are both Harbal and his side-kick DontAskMe).

I think the appropriate word you are looking for is ''Wingwoman'' not ''side-kick''.

Harbal and I are both quite competent pilots of our own life. Who respect each others unique world views. A co-pilot and pilot are both qualified to fly the plane. Leaders and supporters of the leader, are those who know their true place in every relationship dynamic.

Alexis Jacobi wrote: ↑Mon Apr 17, 2023 1:15 pm

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Mon Apr 17, 2023 12:50 pmOn the absolute level, there is no separation, nothing to connect to or disconnect from, where everything and any thing is allowed to be, happen freely without will or intention, is all inclusive of belief or disbelief. Is, all pervading, non-judgmental, withstanding, enduring, everlasting, unchanging true pure empty infinite space of real unconditional love.

Well there you have it. See, you just need to get to and remain on that absolute level. A much purer version of gobbledygook results. I’ve always preferred psychobabble of the absolute sort to its low-level ‘human’ variety.

Looks like we may be stuck with each other, AJ, if you want someone to talk to. Do you wish to talk to me?

Alexis Jacobi wrote: ↑Mon Apr 17, 2023 12:24 pm

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Mon Apr 17, 2023 7:45 am The answer to every question is the space between the question and the answer. The distance is pure illusion.

You know — yes. YES!

The scales are falling from my eyes.

And every question’s answer is also the question’s negation. And as you well know a negation is just as much an affirmation!

So everything turns in beautiful circles!

Don’t tell me we could never connect!

::: enters samadhi :::

Praise be to don't ask me!
Bless him!
Bless him in his downward spiral in the rabbit hole

Come AJ, I think we are being asked to go back into our rabbit holes. Or perhaps Sculptor is only referring to me going down into my rabbit hole?