Does the "Free Will" point of view affect morals and character?

[popeye1945]

"A compound cause is an influencer. Context defines, if you cannot choose your context, you cannot determine your own destiny. Misfortune builds upon misfortune, as success builds upon success."

Not much to go on!!

[Belinda]

The act of choosing is not mysterious. We are caused by our personalities and circumstances to choose this or that course of action.

It clearly is a mystery to people when they're not self-aware and self-conscious of the choices they're making!

It seems, to them, as-if their choices are 'determined', coming from some 'external' source, outside of one's body...emanating from God-Himself perhaps.

Hence why you and the others are 'Determinists'. You don't understand the Choices that you make.

Nobody entirely understands the choices they make. People who undergo psychotherapy increase their understanding of the choices they make. People who know a lot of facts increase their understanding of the choices they make. People who judge well and interpret facts well have an increased understanding of their choices. However nobody's choices are devoid of an element of fortune or chance.

[popeye1945]

A choice becomes cause, and its effects are numerous; one cannot know the full consequences of one's choices, just as we cannot know, all the causes of our choices. It is all part of a complexity beyond contemplation.

[Iwannaplato]

"I don't think one has to be a materialist to be a compatibilist."

Seems to me to be a requisite (unless your countin' calvinists).

Or anyone who thinks D and FW are compatible. Liebnitz, some forms of Hinduism, Pali Buddhism, I am sure there are others....
You just need to have some sense that cause and effect, whether spiritual, thought-based or material, do not preclude agency.

And again, if you are making a choice and are an agent that you state prior to making that choice it would seem would lead to that choice. You desires..etc.

The eliminative materialists make consciousness a mere witness with no causal effects. That's always seemed odd to me.
But then on the other side many free will positions seem to be a self that is an agent - can intend and lead to effects - but it not affected by causes.

[Wizard22]

Nobody entirely understands the choices they make. People who undergo psychotherapy increase their understanding of the choices they make. People who know a lot of facts increase their understanding of the choices they make. People who judge well and interpret facts well have an increased understanding of their choices. However nobody's choices are devoid of an element of fortune or chance.

Fortune or chance...relating to the Unknown...hence why Choice...therefore Free-Will are required.

Choice is only understood in context of the Unknown (Epistemology). Since the Unknown is *NOT* Pre-determined, there is Free-Will.

[Belinda]

Nobody entirely understands the choices they make. People who undergo psychotherapy increase their understanding of the choices they make. People who know a lot of facts increase their understanding of the choices they make. People who judge well and interpret facts well have an increased understanding of their choices. However nobody's choices are devoid of an element of fortune or chance.

Fortune or chance...relating to the Unknown...hence why Choice...therefore Free-Will are required.

Choice is only understood in context of the Unknown (Epistemology). Since the Unknown is *NOT* Pre-determined, there is Free-Will.

But there is nothing free about relying on fortune (chance,randomness- or luck). Quite the opposite. People are more free when they know as much as possible about what causes what.

[Wizard22]

Okay so you're just contradicting yourself now.

Claiming that you are 'freer', from knowing more (about Causality), is against Determinist ideology.

Determinists believe that knowing more about Causality, means you are less free, hence, more 'Determined'.

[Flannel Jesus]

Okay so you're just contradicting yourself now.

Claiming that you are 'freer', from knowing more (about Causality), is against Determinist ideology.

Determinists believe that knowing more about Causality, means you are less free, hence, more 'Determined'.

Once again showing how little you listen to the thoughts of others.

[Wizard22]

Okay, explain how...

[Flannel Jesus]

Belinda already is. You're ignoring her. I could explain how, just for you to ignore me too.

[Flannel Jesus]

"Determinists believe that knowing more about Causality, means you are less free"

Show me a quote where determinists say this

[Wizard22]

I'm going to go pull Belinda's quote where she said it...

[Wizard22]

Whatever befalls a man is due to a combination of chance and choice.

In a deterministic universe whatever befalls a man is due to what must inevitable happen.

Right here is at least one of her contradictions...

Pay attention, FJ

[Flannel Jesus]

Whatever befalls a man is due to a combination of chance and choice.

In a deterministic universe whatever befalls a man is due to what must inevitable happen.

Right here is at least one of her contradictions...

Pay attention, FJ

That quote doesn't say what you said. Pay attention yourself.

[Wizard22]

Determinists believe that such freedom as they have to make this world a better place relates to the individual's reasoning capacity, knowledge, and empathy.
The believer in Free Will believes that their ability to choose is not relative but is absolute, and can overcome stupidity, ignorance, and vanity.

Both Free Willists and determinists choose. Many animals can actively choose, who have no interest in ontology. Choice is not a synonym for Free Will.

Here's another flaw in her Deterministic arguments...

How is Free-Will *NOT* measured by Choice? If another metric is used, then what would that be? How can Free-Will even be possible, without Choice?