Philosophy Now Forum

Dubious wrote:You received plenty already.

Not one. Go look.

Immanuel Can wrote:Hey, give me one.

I haven't even heard one moral value...not one...that Atheism will rationally ground.

...

Tell us what is rational about grounding them upon an imaginary being who is going to hand out judgement after you are dead? Given that 'its' imaginary and all that.

Still, how about it's a rational moral value to co-operate with those who would co-operate with you towards a shared goal as you out-perform those who don't in the majority of situations, and no 'God' needed.

human nature is to embellish and concoct instead of being accurate and factual. Thus all the tirades , and personal attacks. Everyone has their basis for what they consider knowledge. So they get proud and choosey and ignore basis they none agree with. So you have religion vs secularism two fallacious sides of reasoning and logic. They none speak the others language and they reason in totally else different ways. Each side to me ignores simple facts of reality continually. And each side has a control the masses agenda. Yet both sides are blind and arrogant and lacking in accurate reality judgment. So why listen to idiots as they seduce the masses.
The genuine argument is between spiritualists and materialists. Religion vs atheism is a childish rant. So what their is no god in this existence and the believers scoff. It is a boring debate and i am sick of their spewing hatred.
I dont hate people because of their logic or convictions be it a valid religion or a materialist belief.
Evolution, islam and christianity are religions that must go the way of extinction. There is way too much fallacy in those religions. They hog media space too.
It is also time to hold subjective experience as crucial knowledge .

osgart wrote:human nature is to embellish and concoct instead of being accurate and factual. Thus all the tirades , and personal attacks. Everyone has their basis for what they consider knowledge. So they get proud and choosey and ignore basis they none agree with. So you have religion vs secularism two fallacious sides of reasoning and logic.

No, they cannot BOTH be fallacious.

Either you live your life with religion or not. If you do not then you live a secular life.
Where are the fallacies in these positions?

Immanuel Can wrote:Atheism makes you the unfortunate product of chance -- derived from the most perverse and unlikely kind of accident, heading to absolute nowhere, and morally responsible to nothing in the meanwhile. ...

Stopped with Kant and didn't bother with Hegel then.

Animals have it better. They don't have to know any of that.

We are an animal so apparently they do.

Immanuel Can wrote:

Hobbes' Choice wrote:Only atheism makes all possible.

Atheism makes you the unfortunate product of chance -- derived from the most perverse and unlikely kind of accident, heading to absolute nowhere, and morally responsible to nothing in the meanwhile.

Animals have it better. They don't have to know any of that.

Atheism does not MAKE me anything. I chose that position through reason. The fact of my chance is not related to that choice. The fact of my origin was an objective reality before I made that choice.
You are making a fallacious argument, as usual. This time it is the fallacy of adverse consequences. You really need to do better if you want to think of yourself as the intelligent one here.

And being the result of chance does not mean I have no purpose or moral integrity. On the contrary. Just because you lack the imagination to understand a moral world without god, that is not a problem for me.
I am responsible for my choices and my honour. I do not have the luxury of comiting moral crimes only to receive absolution from a priest, like you.

osgart wrote:human nature is to embellish and concoct instead of being accurate and factual. Thus all the tirades , and personal attacks. Everyone has their basis for what they consider knowledge. So they get proud and choosey and ignore basis they none agree with. So you have religion vs secularism two fallacious sides of reasoning and logic. They none speak the others language and they reason in totally else different ways. Each side to me ignores simple facts of reality continually. And each side has a control the masses agenda. Yet both sides are blind and arrogant and lacking in accurate reality judgment. So why listen to idiots as they seduce the masses.
The genuine argument is between spiritualists and materialists. Religion vs atheism is a childish rant. So what their is no god in this existence and the believers scoff. It is a boring debate and i am sick of their spewing hatred.
I dont hate people because of their logic or convictions be it a valid religion or a materialist belief.
Evolution, islam and christianity are religions that must go the way of extinction. There is way too much fallacy in those religions. They hog media space too.
It is also time to hold subjective experience as crucial knowledge .

'Evolution is a religion'. What a dipshit.

Immanuel Can wrote:

Dubious wrote:You received plenty already.

Not one. Go look.

I don't need to look I already read most of them. There are plenty but NOT ONE you considered worthy and there won't ever be one; not now; not in 10 years from now if we're still around. There is no way a theistic zombie could ever consider alternatives. If there's one thing that can be derived from all these interminable posts, it's THAT!

What you have managed is the opposite of your intent. Amoralism, immoralism, hypocrisy, but preeminently Nihilism hardly exists in atheism to the extent it does in the theistic world view. You're the kind of theist the world strives to be released from. The world is becoming more 'non-theistic' so stick around, we need more fellows like you to expedite the process.

Immanuel Can wrote:I haven't even heard one moral value...not one...that Atheism will rationally ground.

I don't know whereabout in the Boondocks you received this philosophical training you boast about, but they were selling you snake oil if you haven't even heard of utilitarianism.

Arising_uk wrote:Tell us what is rational about grounding them upon an imaginary being who is going to hand out judgement after you are dead? Given that 'its' imaginary and all that.

Regardless of whether it's imaginary, it was Immanuel Kant, who surely even Immanuel Can must have heard of, who pointed out that an action carried out under duress, such as the threat of eternal torture, is not a moral act. Think about it this way, Mr Can: suppose a little old lady holds a gun to your head, to make you help her cross the road. Are you behaving as a moral agent by helping the little old lady cross the road?
Immanuel Kant was one of those rare things, an agnostic theist. He demolished all the traditional arguments for god that Mr Can still clings to, because they were an impediment to faith and by extension to morality. If you 'know' that god exists, then you know you are going to burn in hell, if you fail to do its bidding. Kant believed that it is the intent that defines morality, his categorical imperative in essence is act only as you wish everyone else would; there is no threat from god. Mr Can feels it necessary to add the caveat that if you don't, you will be subject to never ending violence. Kant has gone down in history. Can is so distorted by his religion he probably won't go down on his missus.

osgart wrote:
Evolution and islam and christianity are religions that must go the way of extinction
There is way too much fallacy in those religions. They hog media space too
It is also time to hold subjective experience as crucial knowledge

Can you give examples of any of these fallacies in evolution?
And can you also explain why you think that it is a religion?
Do you know why subjective experience is not knowledge?

Dubious wrote: There are plenty...

Name it. One word is all it will take. What is one of the moral values Atheism necessitates?

Hobbes' Choice wrote:I am responsible for my choices and my honour.

Yes, you are...and will be accountable for the same.

I do not have the luxury of comiting moral crimes only to receive absolution from a priest, like you.

Missed guess. Not a Catholic or Eastern Orthodox. Sorry, chum.

Immanuel Can wrote:

Dubious wrote: There are plenty...

Name it. One word is all it will take. What is one of the moral values Atheism necessitates?

Why don't you just define 'morality' then, and clear up this incredibly boring and pointless discussion.

vegetariantaxidermy wrote: Why don't you just define 'morality' then, and clear up this incredibly boring and pointless discussion.

Rather, just answer the question. One word. One.

surreptitious57 wrote:

osgart wrote:
Evolution and islam and christianity are religions that must go the way of extinction
There is way too much fallacy in those religions. They hog media space too
It is also time to hold subjective experience as crucial knowledge

Can you give examples of any of these fallacies in evolution?
And can you also explain why you think that it is a religion?
Do you know why subjective experience is not knowledge?

Fallacies in evolution, and saying that evolution is a religion, are 2 claims of creationists, used to discredit evolution and prove creation. There are no fallacies in evolution, evolution is not a religion, and it is a false dichotomy to assume that there are only 2 choices. Even if creationists could find something that disproves evolution, it would not prove creation correct.