Philosophy Now Forum

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Wed Dec 04, 2024 9:03 pmJust trying to be helpful.

Why?

You understand what he promotes is a horrorshow. Why help him do it?

Alexiev wrote: ↑Wed Dec 04, 2024 11:25 pm

accelafine wrote: ↑Wed Dec 04, 2024 10:50 pm Ugh. 'Happy holidays'. Another loathesome Americanism. I just wish Americans would shove their collective phoniness up their collective arse.

And may your New Year bring you the joy and kindness you deserve!

I reject your 'good wishes' and turn them back on you, phony American ************

henry quirk wrote: ↑Wed Dec 04, 2024 11:42 pm

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Wed Dec 04, 2024 9:03 pmJust trying to be helpful.

Why?

You understand what he promotes is a horrorshow. Why help him do it?

He's not 'promoting' anything. Facts don't cease to be facts just because you don't like them, Ernest.

Free will or not; determinism or not, or simply a blend of the two; in this life, however encountered, we are forced to make decisions, whatever its philosophical implications or scientific background may be. Those who decide on free will compared to those who don't are on the same side of the equation, invariably oblivious in what decides because nature has decreed that we must decide on the paths taken, whether such responses are assumed as free will or thoroughly deterministic.

What is supposed to change regardless of what you believe! In life, it's business as usual until there is none.

henry quirk wrote: ↑Wed Dec 04, 2024 11:42 pm

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Wed Dec 04, 2024 9:03 pmJust trying to be helpful.

Why?

You understand what he promotes is a horrorshow. Why help him do it?

Because I don't think he can.

The more that people realize about Determinism, the worse...and more unrealistic...it sounds. That's Mike's chief problem, actually...he's "taxicabbed" his Determinism, jumping off the ride early and declaring that things like humanity, morality, compassion, justice, truth and science can still exist, given Determinism. The more people who realize they can't survive, the better for us all.

Dubious wrote: ↑Thu Dec 05, 2024 1:33 am ...a blend of the two...

There's no such thing, because Determinism claims to be absolute. Any tiny modicum of will being allowed as a causal agency, and Determinism is not true.

Well, the Schop and Fritz school teaches that there is only will, and the 'self' is just a form of that will, determined (meaning being generated out of a complex of causes... not 'thought beforehand and planned by some determiner' like 'god' or Stephen Hawking) like any other phenomena that exists and is a manifestation of will.

These forms you experience in the universe now will one day cease to exist, and whatever forms of matter and energy that exist instead will be yet another manifestation of will.

For two points, what is that will to?

It rhymes with 'shower', which, incidentally, I am about to take.

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Thu Dec 05, 2024 1:35 am

Dubious wrote: ↑Thu Dec 05, 2024 1:33 am ...a blend of the two...

There's no such thing, because Determinism claims to be absolute. Any tiny modicum of will being allowed as a causal agency, and Determinism is not true.

In light of your philosophic simplicity and your unquestionable theistic purity, I completely understand your response in having to maintain your personal status quo at all cost. However, the universe and all life in it are considerably more complicated than the simple-minded dichotomy you espouse. But never let the facts intervene. Being as deterministic and predictable as you are, your usual response, which you are now likely to preempt, would be...what facts!

Dubious wrote: ↑Thu Dec 05, 2024 3:11 am

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Thu Dec 05, 2024 1:35 am

Dubious wrote: ↑Thu Dec 05, 2024 1:33 am ...a blend of the two...

There's no such thing, because Determinism claims to be absolute. Any tiny modicum of will being allowed as a causal agency, and Determinism is not true.

However, the universe and all life in it are considerably more complicated than the simple-minded dichotomy you espouse.

If you know anything about Determinism...or logic...you can see I'm right. Any tiny bit of will in the universe means Determinism, by its own defintion, is not true.

Don't blame me. Blame the Determinists. It's their idea.

'Free will' is just something that humans have made up. It's pretty obvious. You can feel it every time you make a decision if you focus on it--that your 'decisions' are already made before you 'make' them. Plus, 'free will' would make life extremely difficult. What if we had to make a conscious 'decision' every time we did something? We'd never move from the same spot

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Thu Dec 05, 2024 3:42 am

Dubious wrote: ↑Thu Dec 05, 2024 3:11 am

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Thu Dec 05, 2024 1:35 am
There's no such thing, because Determinism claims to be absolute. Any tiny modicum of will being allowed as a causal agency, and Determinism is not true.

However, the universe and all life in it are considerably more complicated than the simple-minded dichotomy you espouse.

If you know anything about Determinism...or logic...you can see I'm right. Any tiny bit of will in the universe means Determinism, by its own defintion, is not true.

Don't blame me. Blame the Determinists. It's their idea.

In pure philosophic terms, you're probably half right. But then, much of philosophy is nothing more than a huge landfill of bunk. Add science to it, and we're in another domain entirely which creates a probability index based on evidence and not any mutilated logic which is only as good as what it creates, that usually being endless reams of garbage.

...but the point, I repeat, is that whether determinist or free will exponent, nothing changes for either party. No one pre-calculates their decisions based on whether they're predicated on free will or through the control of fixed laws. The differences in principle can be hyper though it changes nothing in its functioning.

accelafine wrote: ↑Thu Dec 05, 2024 4:31 am 'Free will' us just something that humans have made up. It's pretty obvious. You can feel it every time you make a decision if you focus on it--that your 'decisions' are already made before you 'make' them. Plus, 'free will' would make life extremely difficult. What if we had to make a conscious 'decision' every time we did something? We'd never move from the same spot

Can you name anything with words that were not words made to fit something by humans, thus "something made up"?

accelafine wrote:You can feel it every time you make a decision if you focus on it--that your 'decisions' are already made before you 'make' them.

LMFAO

..so the force of nature is Y you are a cranky ol' bat

attofishpi wrote: ↑Thu Dec 05, 2024 8:03 am

accelafine wrote: ↑Thu Dec 05, 2024 4:31 am 'Free will' us just something that humans have made up. It's pretty obvious. You can feel it every time you make a decision if you focus on it--that your 'decisions' are already made before you 'make' them. Plus, 'free will' would make life extremely difficult. What if we had to make a conscious 'decision' every time we did something? We'd never move from the same spot

Can you name anything with words that were not words made to fit something by humans, thus "something made up"?

accelafine wrote:You can feel it every time you make a decision if you focus on it--that your 'decisions' are already made before you 'make' them.

LMFAO

..so the force of nature is Y you are a cranky ol' bat

You are irrelevant, schizo freak.