Philosophy Now Forum

Skepdick wrote: ↑Thu Aug 31, 2023 1:58 pm

Atla wrote: ↑Thu Aug 31, 2023 1:47 pm

Skepdick wrote: ↑Thu Aug 31, 2023 10:11 am how in a universe which tends towards entropy we end up with negentropic processes such as life forms?

Completely off-topic, but why do you think that lifeforms are negentropic?

Why do you think they aren't?

Biological systems take energy from the environment and use it to do stuff. Not the least of all we use it to reconfigure matter in self-similar manner. e.g reproduction/self-replication.

Which are all entropic processes. What's your point?

Atla wrote: ↑Thu Aug 31, 2023 2:02 pm Which are all entropic processes. What's your point?

No, they aren't. They are locally negentropic.

You keep confusing micro and macro states of the system. Take a lesson in statistics already...

Skepdick wrote: ↑Thu Aug 31, 2023 2:04 pm

Atla wrote: ↑Thu Aug 31, 2023 2:02 pm Which are all entropic processes. What's your point?

No, they aren't. They are locally negentropic.

You keep confusing micro and macro states of the system. Take a lesson in statistics already...

Locally negentropic inside the organism or rather inside some parts of the organism, but globally entropic. So?

Atla wrote: ↑Thu Aug 31, 2023 2:08 pm Locally negentropic inside the organism or rather inside some parts of the organism, but globally entropic. So?

Draw the boundary anywhere you want.

The "outside" is entropic.
The "inside" is negentropic.

Skepdick wrote: ↑Thu Aug 31, 2023 2:11 pm

Atla wrote: ↑Thu Aug 31, 2023 2:08 pm Locally negentropic inside the organism or rather inside some parts of the organism, but globally entropic. So?

Draw the boundary anywhere you want.

The "outside" is entropic.
The "inside" is negentropic.

Yes and overall lifeforms are still entropic, because the entropy created by lifeforms outweighs the negentropy. So what's your point?

Atla wrote: ↑Thu Aug 31, 2023 2:13 pm Yes and overall lifeforms are still entropic, because the entropy created by lifeforms outweighs the negentropy. So what's your point?

Overall is the "outside" perspective, not the "inside" perspective.

As negentropy increases internally it entropy increases externally.

So you have no idea what you are talking about. As usual.

Skepdick wrote: ↑Thu Aug 31, 2023 2:14 pm

Atla wrote: ↑Thu Aug 31, 2023 2:13 pm Yes and overall lifeforms are still entropic, because the entropy created by lifeforms outweighs the negentropy. So what's your point?

Overall is the "outside" perspective, not the "inside" perspective.

So you have no idea what you are talking about. As usual.

Not in English, overall = inside + outside

Did you have nightmares about the Entropy Monster again?

It will eat the universe you know, yam yam

Atla wrote: ↑Thu Aug 31, 2023 2:16 pm Not in English, overall = inside + outside

It certainly doesn't mean "+". That's not how averages work.

Atla wrote: ↑Thu Aug 31, 2023 2:16 pm Did you have nightmares about the Entropy Monster again?

It will eat the universe you know, yam yam

No, I am having "nightmares" about all the idiots I am surrounded by.

In particular - the idiots who can't explain why entropy gives rise ot negentropy.

Skepdick wrote: ↑Thu Aug 31, 2023 2:17 pm

Atla wrote: ↑Thu Aug 31, 2023 2:16 pm Not in English, overall = inside + outside

Did you have nightmares about the Entropy Monster again?

It will eat the universe you know, yam yam

No, I am having "nightmares" about all the idiots I am surrounded by.

In particular - the idiots who can't explain why entropy gives rise ot negentropy.

The Entropy Monster is out to get you, you're running out of time!

Atla wrote: ↑Thu Aug 31, 2023 2:18 pm The Entropy Monster is out to get you, you're running out of time!

ROFL. So not enough negentropy then?

Congratulations. You are a much bigger idiot than I originaly gave you credit for.

Skepdick wrote: ↑Thu Aug 31, 2023 2:19 pm

Atla wrote: ↑Thu Aug 31, 2023 2:18 pm The Entropy Monster is out to get you, you're running out of time!

ROFL. So not enough negentropy then?

Congratulations. You are a much bigger idiot than I originaly gave you credit for.

I have just the right amount of negentropy, thank you.

Atla wrote: ↑Thu Aug 31, 2023 2:22 pm

Skepdick wrote: ↑Thu Aug 31, 2023 2:19 pm

Atla wrote: ↑Thu Aug 31, 2023 2:18 pm The Entropy Monster is out to get you, you're running out of time!

ROFL. So not enough negentropy then?

Congratulations. You are a much bigger idiot than I originaly gave you credit for.

I have just the right amount of negentropy, thank you.

Any amount of negentropy is wasted on you.

Skepdick wrote: ↑Thu Aug 31, 2023 2:24 pm

Atla wrote: ↑Thu Aug 31, 2023 2:22 pm

Skepdick wrote: ↑Thu Aug 31, 2023 2:19 pm
ROFL. So not enough negentropy then?

Congratulations. You are a much bigger idiot than I originaly gave you credit for.

I have just the right amount of negentropy, thank you.

Any amount of negentropy is wasted on you.

I may have more than you do. Do you like that?

Atla wrote: ↑Thu Aug 31, 2023 2:26 pm

Skepdick wrote: ↑Thu Aug 31, 2023 2:24 pm

Atla wrote: ↑Thu Aug 31, 2023 2:22 pm
I have just the right amount of negentropy, thank you.

Any amount of negentropy is wasted on you.

I may have more than you do. Do you like that?

That sounds like just the right amount of too much.

Skepdick wrote: ↑Thu Aug 31, 2023 2:26 pm

Atla wrote: ↑Thu Aug 31, 2023 2:26 pm

Skepdick wrote: ↑Thu Aug 31, 2023 2:24 pm
Any amount of negentropy is wasted on you.

I may have more than you do. Do you like that?

That sounds like just the right amount of too much.

I have enough negentropy to know that people who are stuck on the issue of entropy and negentropy, like you, don't see the bigger picture. Negentropy in an entropic observable universe is a necessary condition, but not of central importance at all.