Re: Ukraine Crisis
Posted: Thu Oct 13, 2022 3:49 am
OK. Have at it then. Enjoy.promethean75 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 13, 2022 3:26 am Nuthin man. I'm just smoking a bowl of some headies and decided to troll u.
Philosophy Now Forum
For the discussion of all things philosophical.
https://canzookia.com/
Ukraine Crisis
Page 57 of 104
Re: Ukraine Crisis
Posted: Thu Oct 13, 2022 5:48 am
Oh come on, who is on whose border? Who is the aggressor? If you were in Germany in the 1930s, you would have been a Nazi.Gary Childress wrote: ↑Thu Oct 13, 2022 2:06 amIt takes two to tango. Putin is every bit as culpable in this mess as Biden. You're naive if you think otherwise.popeye1945 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 13, 2022 12:03 amGary,Gary Childress wrote: ↑Wed Oct 12, 2022 10:34 pm The people pulling the strings on the Democrat party will all suffer from a nuclear war. Whether they can even wrap their heads around more than just pure greed is another thing altogether.
I think you don't get it, it is not the Democrats nor the Republicans it is the psychopaths of the power elite that run the show. They really couldn't care less what party is in power. The industrial military complex is about business and business is about war, America's cottage industry. It's feeding time for the empire and the empire is the power elite/military-industrial complex. It is not a democracy, the people are not in control here and their war machine is going to drag us all into the abyss.
Re: Ukraine Crisis
Posted: Thu Oct 13, 2022 10:39 am
You're probably closer to what would have been a Hitler sympathizer than I am, if you approve of Russia lobbing artillery at Ukraine from across the border. Putin invaded and is the one razing cities in Ukraine in the name of "de-Nazification." Not sure what isn't registering in your head. At the rate you're going I'm sure you would have been there cheering Hitler on in his early military ventures in taking back the Ruhr and Czechoslovakia. Most of the rest of us just want peace. As I say, if it will appease you and Putin, then let Putin have some territory in Ukraine. Maybe that will make Putin feel "safe", but I doubt it. He'll be coming back for more. He's apparently been hanging out with Russian nationalists lately.popeye1945 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 13, 2022 5:48 amOh come on, who is on whose border? Who is the aggressor? If you were in Germany in the 1930s, you would have been a Nazi.Gary Childress wrote: ↑Thu Oct 13, 2022 2:06 amIt takes two to tango. Putin is every bit as culpable in this mess as Biden. You're naive if you think otherwise.popeye1945 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 13, 2022 12:03 am
Gary,
I think you don't get it, it is not the Democrats nor the Republicans it is the psychopaths of the power elite that run the show. They really couldn't care less what party is in power. The industrial military complex is about business and business is about war, America's cottage industry. It's feeding time for the empire and the empire is the power elite/military-industrial complex. It is not a democracy, the people are not in control here and their war machine is going to drag us all into the abyss.
Re: Ukraine Crisis
Posted: Thu Oct 13, 2022 11:07 am
Are you a Republican? Hypothetical question: How do you think Americans would feel if Russia installed a military base in Canada about fifty miles from the American border?Gary Childress wrote: ↑Thu Oct 13, 2022 10:39 amYou're probably closer to what would have been a Hitler sympathizer than I am, if you approve of Russia lobbing artillery at Ukraine from across the border. Putin invaded and is the one razing cities in Ukraine in the name of "de-Nazification." Not sure what isn't registering in your head. At the rate you're going I'm sure you would have been there cheering Hitler on in his early military ventures in taking back the Ruhr and Czechoslovakia. Most of the rest of us just want peace. As I say, if it will appease you and Putin, then let Putin have some territory in Ukraine. Maybe that will make Putin feel "safe", but I doubt it. He'll be coming back for more. He's apparently been hanging out with Russian nationalists lately.popeye1945 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 13, 2022 5:48 amOh come on, who is on whose border? Who is the aggressor? If you were in Germany in the 1930s, you would have been a Nazi.Gary Childress wrote: ↑Thu Oct 13, 2022 2:06 am
It takes two to tango. Putin is every bit as culpable in this mess as Biden. You're naive if you think otherwise.
Re: Ukraine Crisis
Posted: Thu Oct 13, 2022 2:24 pm
The Chinese did. But they didn't do much with it.
All hope of the Russians surviving entailed the Allies opening up a second front, too. Stalin knew this: and that's why he pushed so hard for it at Yalta. Unless Hitler's forces were divided, the war was going to be much longer and the outcome much less certain than if there were two fronts....all hope of winning the war depended upon keeping the Russians in the war.
Plausibly, you're right. It certainly would have made the job of concentrating their efforts against the Allies much simpler.If the Germans had defeated the Russians even America's industrial power would have been overmatched by the resources now available to them in a conquered Russia.
But there were also points other than Stalingrad that could have been decisive. One was when Hitler failed to realize the success of the wolf packs in the early war, and so did not provide enough support to that strategy when it would have been decisive of the control of the Atlantic. Another is the Battle of Britain, which, if won, would have denied the Allies any beachhead and preparation zone within striking distance of Europe. Another is when he misdirected his attention and resources to things like killing Jews, when he was in desperate need of resources supporting his own troops. He made several mistakes: but arguably, none bigger than allowing a two-front war to develop on the European mainland.
Quite the opposite. American children are today taught nothing about the attrocities of Communism, even though these are so relatively recent in history, and represent, by orders of magnitude, the biggest source of fatalities in human history...well over 100 million. They are taught nothing about gulags and purges, or re-education camps, or killing fields, or any other of the fixtures of Communist rule.American propaganda has been very successful,
That much is true. Unfortunately, the debt is to a thoroughly murderous regime run by Stalin, who was far worse than Putin has ever proved to be...so far.The peoples of the world owe a great debt to Russia...
Re: Ukraine Crisis
Posted: Thu Oct 13, 2022 2:48 pm
Lefties. They all cry about the vicious discrimination in a country like America (which is actually, despite its history, now one of the world's most tolerant and minority-favouring countries), and then tip their caps to psychopathic despots like Stalin and Mao, and try to incite us all to try their massively homicidal social experiments just one more time.vegetariantaxidermy wrote: ↑Thu Oct 13, 2022 1:51 amWhat about his 'beloved Stalin'Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Wed Oct 12, 2022 7:33 pmWhat a cheapshot. That's low, even for you. I guess some people have no shame at all.
That doesn't even deserve a response. I'm not wasting another second on you.
Re: Ukraine Crisis
Posted: Thu Oct 13, 2022 5:39 pm
https://www.britannica.com/question/Wha ... rld-War-IIImmanuel Can wrote: ↑Thu Oct 13, 2022 2:24 pmThe Chinese did. But they didn't do much with it.
All hope of the Russians surviving entailed the Allies opening up a second front, too. Stalin knew this: and that's why he pushed so hard for it at Yalta. Unless Hitler's forces were divided, the war was going to be much longer and the outcome much less certain than if there were two fronts....all hope of winning the war depended upon keeping the Russians in the war.Plausibly, you're right. It certainly would have made the job of concentrating their efforts against the Allies much simpler.If the Germans had defeated the Russians even America's industrial power would have been overmatched by the resources now available to them in a conquered Russia.
But there were also points other than Stalingrad that could have been decisive. One was when Hitler failed to realize the success of the wolf packs in the early war, and so did not provide enough support to that strategy when it would have been decisive of the control of the Atlantic. Another is the Battle of Britain, which, if won, would have denied the Allies any beachhead and preparation zone within striking distance of Europe. Another is when he misdirected his attention and resources to things like killing Jews, when he was in desperate need of resources supporting his own troops. He made several mistakes: but arguably, none bigger than allowing a two-front war to develop on the European mainland.
Quite the opposite. American children are today taught nothing about the attrocities of Communism, even though these are so relatively recent in history, and represent, by orders of magnitude, the biggest source of fatalities in human history...well over 100 million. They are taught nothing about gulags and purges, or re-education camps, or killing fields, or any other of the fixtures of Communist rule.American propaganda has been very successful,That much is true. Unfortunately, the debt is to a thoroughly murderous regime run by Stalin, who was far worse than Putin has ever proved to be...so far.The peoples of the world owe a great debt to Russia...
Re: Ukraine Crisis
Posted: Thu Oct 13, 2022 5:51 pm
All you've added is the Battle of Midway...with which I agree. That was another turning point. And shall we also add in Romell's defeat in North Africa? We might. Or was it when Hitler failed to develop his rockets early enough, or to develop his heavy-water (early nuclear) experiments in time to make full use of them in the war, or was it when the Enigma Code was cracked...popeye1945 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 13, 2022 5:39 pmhttps://www.britannica.com/question/Wha ... rld-War-IIImmanuel Can wrote: ↑Thu Oct 13, 2022 2:24 pmThe Chinese did. But they didn't do much with it.
All hope of the Russians surviving entailed the Allies opening up a second front, too. Stalin knew this: and that's why he pushed so hard for it at Yalta. Unless Hitler's forces were divided, the war was going to be much longer and the outcome much less certain than if there were two fronts....all hope of winning the war depended upon keeping the Russians in the war.Plausibly, you're right. It certainly would have made the job of concentrating their efforts against the Allies much simpler.If the Germans had defeated the Russians even America's industrial power would have been overmatched by the resources now available to them in a conquered Russia.
But there were also points other than Stalingrad that could have been decisive. One was when Hitler failed to realize the success of the wolf packs in the early war, and so did not provide enough support to that strategy when it would have been decisive of the control of the Atlantic. Another is the Battle of Britain, which, if won, would have denied the Allies any beachhead and preparation zone within striking distance of Europe. Another is when he misdirected his attention and resources to things like killing Jews, when he was in desperate need of resources supporting his own troops. He made several mistakes: but arguably, none bigger than allowing a two-front war to develop on the European mainland.
Quite the opposite. American children are today taught nothing about the attrocities of Communism, even though these are so relatively recent in history, and represent, by orders of magnitude, the biggest source of fatalities in human history...well over 100 million. They are taught nothing about gulags and purges, or re-education camps, or killing fields, or any other of the fixtures of Communist rule.American propaganda has been very successful,That much is true. Unfortunately, the debt is to a thoroughly murderous regime run by Stalin, who was far worse than Putin has ever proved to be...so far.The peoples of the world owe a great debt to Russia...
How long would you like to play that game? There were clearly many turning points, most of which had nothing to do with Russia: but one did.
Here's some more: https://www.historyextra.com/period/sec ... ww2-exact/
But what would have happened if Germany had won the Battle of Britain in 1940, before HItler launched Operation Barbarossa (Russia) a year later? Stalingrad very nearly fell, as it was. What would a lot more troops and planes and tanks on the German side have been capable of doing? A great deal, one suspects. So Russia's just one story in a complex story...and not the most important one, given the essential nature of the two-front war...just as Stalin himself realized.
Re: Ukraine Crisis
Posted: Thu Oct 13, 2022 6:45 pm
Do you have memory problems?Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Thu Oct 13, 2022 2:48 pmLefties. They all cry about the vicious discrimination in a country like America (which is actually, despite its history, now one of the world's most tolerant and minority-favouring countries), and then tip their caps to psychopathic despots like Stalin and Mao, and try to incite us all to try their massively homicidal social experiments just one more time.vegetariantaxidermy wrote: ↑Thu Oct 13, 2022 1:51 amWhat about his 'beloved Stalin'Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Wed Oct 12, 2022 7:33 pm
That doesn't even deserve a response. I'm not wasting another second on you.
Re: Ukraine Crisis
Posted: Thu Oct 13, 2022 6:52 pm
?
Re: Ukraine Crisis
Posted: Thu Oct 13, 2022 7:08 pm
Not that I'm aware of. Why do you ask?
Are you by chance a Russian?
We might feel bad but there would be nothing we could rightfully do about it except put on our best face and go about business as usual, making sure our people have the opportunity to make a reasonable living. Or are you suggesting we should be permitted to invade Canada for no other reason than they got too chummy with Russia for our taste? Should we be able to dictate our political desires upon the Canadian people whether they agree with us or not?Hypothetical question: How do you think Americans would feel if Russia installed a military base in Canada about fifty miles from the American border?
Re: Ukraine Crisis
Posted: Fri Oct 14, 2022 1:58 am
https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=wh ... M%3DHDRSC3Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Thu Oct 13, 2022 2:24 pmThe Chinese did. But they didn't do much with it.
All hope of the Russians surviving entailed the Allies opening up a second front, too. Stalin knew this: and that's why he pushed so hard for it at Yalta. Unless Hitler's forces were divided, the war was going to be much longer and the outcome much less certain than if there were two fronts....all hope of winning the war depended upon keeping the Russians in the war.Plausibly, you're right. It certainly would have made the job of concentrating their efforts against the Allies much simpler.If the Germans had defeated the Russians even America's industrial power would have been overmatched by the resources now available to them in a conquered Russia.
But there were also points other than Stalingrad that could have been decisive. One was when Hitler failed to realize the success of the wolf packs in the early war, and so did not provide enough support to that strategy when it would have been decisive of the control of the Atlantic. Another is the Battle of Britain, which, if won, would have denied the Allies any beachhead and preparation zone within striking distance of Europe. Another is when he misdirected his attention and resources to things like killing Jews, when he was in desperate need of resources supporting his own troops. He made several mistakes: but arguably, none bigger than allowing a two-front war to develop on the European mainland.
Quite the opposite. American children are today taught nothing about the attrocities of Communism, even though these are so relatively recent in history, and represent, by orders of magnitude, the biggest source of fatalities in human history...well over 100 million. They are taught nothing about gulags and purges, or re-education camps, or killing fields, or any other of the fixtures of Communist rule.American propaganda has been very successful,That much is true. Unfortunately, the debt is to a thoroughly murderous regime run by Stalin, who was far worse than Putin has ever proved to be...so far.The peoples of the world owe a great debt to Russia...
Re: Ukraine Crisis
Posted: Fri Oct 14, 2022 2:05 am
Wow, you really believe what you've stated here? You are a political innocent.Gary Childress wrote: ↑Thu Oct 13, 2022 7:08 pm
Not that I'm aware of. Why do you ask?
Are you by chance a Russian?
We might feel bad but there would be nothing we could rightfully do about it except put on our best face and go about business as usual, making sure our people have the opportunity to make a reasonable living. Or are you suggesting we should be permitted to invade Canada for no other reason than they got too chummy with Russia for our taste? Should we be able to dictate our political desires upon the Canadian people whether they agree with us or not?Hypothetical question: How do you think Americans would feel if Russia installed a military base in Canada about fifty miles from the American border?
Re: Ukraine Crisis
Posted: Fri Oct 14, 2022 6:43 am
The US has military bases practically everywhere. How do you think other countries feel about that?popeye1945 wrote: ↑Fri Oct 14, 2022 2:05 amWow, you really believe what you've stated here? You are a political innocent.Gary Childress wrote: ↑Thu Oct 13, 2022 7:08 pm
Not that I'm aware of. Why do you ask?
Are you by chance a Russian?
We might feel bad but there would be nothing we could rightfully do about it except put on our best face and go about business as usual, making sure our people have the opportunity to make a reasonable living. Or are you suggesting we should be permitted to invade Canada for no other reason than they got too chummy with Russia for our taste? Should we be able to dictate our political desires upon the Canadian people whether they agree with us or not?Hypothetical question: How do you think Americans would feel if Russia installed a military base in Canada about fifty miles from the American border?
Re: Ukraine Crisis
Posted: Fri Oct 14, 2022 12:34 pm
That's a valid point. I suppose some people in those countries might not want a foreign military presence in their country.vegetariantaxidermy wrote: ↑Fri Oct 14, 2022 6:43 amThe US has military bases practically everywhere. How do you think other countries feel about that?popeye1945 wrote: ↑Fri Oct 14, 2022 2:05 amWow, you really believe what you've stated here? You are a political innocent.Gary Childress wrote: ↑Thu Oct 13, 2022 7:08 pm
Not that I'm aware of. Why do you ask?
Are you by chance a Russian?
We might feel bad but there would be nothing we could rightfully do about it except put on our best face and go about business as usual, making sure our people have the opportunity to make a reasonable living. Or are you suggesting we should be permitted to invade Canada for no other reason than they got too chummy with Russia for our taste? Should we be able to dictate our political desires upon the Canadian people whether they agree with us or not?
Bin Laden supposedly didn't want us in Saudi Arabia, so he took things into his own hands and murdered a bunch of American citizens for it. I mean if the majority of people in a country really don't want us there, then we ought to just pull out. Let the chips fall where they may.