Philosophy Now Forum

Atla wrote: ↑Wed Sep 17, 2025 4:05 am

peacegirl wrote: ↑Tue Sep 16, 2025 9:04 pm Didn't you read anything that was written in this entire thread? I know your idea that punishment doesn't need free will but how is this psychological control working? It is obvious that punishment is necessary because it's the only thing we got, but it's only a partial deterrent. It doesn't stop those who don't want to be stopped. Think hard before responding: Is locking people up making our society more safe, more peaceful, more kind, more just, or is it just a game of Whac-A-mole? You refuse to give Lessans a chance because you're so adamant that he was wrong. He wrote:

Of course locking up some people is making our society more safe. Only someone insane would claim otherwise. Conscience isn't God given, many of those locked up have little to no conscience and would continue to cause harm. They have little to no internal deterrent.

Your bluster will get you nowhere Atla. It is disproportionate to the discussion. I think it's because you've been disappointed many times before and you can't let down your guard. I never blamed you and I certainly don't think I'm holier than anyone. Now you're hitting below the belt telling me that I am part of the reason this world can't get anywhere. You've gone off your cotton pickin rocker.

I think this forum tops off as being the nastiest of them all. It makes perfect sense if people here think that they are all that; the cream of the crop, which gives them the right to be the guardians of truth.

Of course you keep blaming people, you don't have to use the word 'blame' for it.

Good thing your whole shtick isn't that you're a guardian of truth, eh?

peacegirl wrote:I am not blaming people. I am defending myself against false attacks. I AM JUSTIFIED.

People who have very low IQ's still have a conscience. You're barking up the wrong tree. Many of these so-called low I.Q. individuals don't have a mean bone in their body. You sound like a white supremacist. Do you believe in eugenics? God help us if that's your solution.

When you consider the big picture, stupidity is the most common form of "unintentional evil". Mainly because stupid people will forever elect the wrong leaders, everywhere.

peacegirl wrote:Stupidity how? What do stupid people do that smart people don't? To say that a stupid person is someone who didn't vote who wanted IS REALLY STUPID. I am not talking about unintentional evil (like voting someone into office you don't like), but about real evil or hurt that is responsible for doing something to others they don't want done to themselves.

No I don't actually believe in eugenics. Eugenics and genetic engineering would be the only way to save the world, but eugenics is too inhumane (not worth it), so the world is (probably) determined to be destroyed. That's what determinism actually says so I don't know why people think that determinism will unlock wonders. (Really our best hope could be to sell genetic engineering to the planet, and even if that might work, that process could take centuries and we may only have decades.) But hey I'm sure your God will save us.

peacegirl wrote:God in this context is just a metaphor for the law of our universe that our guiding us, and yes, it will save us. You are one hundred percent wrong that selling genetic engineering is our best hope to save the planet when it's not faulty genetics that are causing the problem Atla.

peacegirl wrote: ↑Wed Sep 17, 2025 2:17 pm God in this context is just a metaphor for the laws of our universe that our guiding us, and yes, they will save us. You are one hundred percent wrong that selling genetic engineering is our best hope to save the planet when it's not faulty genetics that are causing the problem Atla.

Belinda wrote: ↑Wed Sep 17, 2025 10:23 am

peacegirl wrote: ↑Tue Sep 16, 2025 7:32 pm

Atla wrote: ↑Tue Sep 16, 2025 6:03 pm
No one has done that? That would mean that every other determinist is mentally retarded. They can't think.

Yep, it is a crucial ingredient. Take it up with God if you don't like it.

Peacegirl, are some human 'wills' more free than others? Or are all human 'wills ' equally free?

Determinism implies that each and every event is a necessary event.

peacegirl wrote:That is true but it is misunderstood.

It follows that every case of rape ,or genocide, was a necessary event. How then might we be free?

One deterministic answer that could appeal to you and others is that Christ is built into nature/ Cosmos/God. The Cosmic Christ offers a way to save us from our cognitive and affective deficiencies.

Atla wrote: ↑Wed Sep 17, 2025 3:01 pm

peacegirl wrote: ↑Wed Sep 17, 2025 2:17 pm God in this context is just a metaphor for the laws of our universe that our guiding us, and yes, they will save us. You are one hundred percent wrong that selling genetic engineering is our best hope to save the planet when it's not faulty genetics that are causing the problem Atla.

I never said they were faulty.

Belinda wrote: ↑Wed Sep 17, 2025 10:28 am

Atla wrote: ↑Wed Sep 17, 2025 4:05 am

peacegirl wrote: ↑Tue Sep 16, 2025 9:04 pm Didn't you read anything that was written in this entire thread? I know your idea that punishment doesn't need free will but how is this psychological control working? It is obvious that punishment is necessary because it's the only thing we got, but it's only a partial deterrent. It doesn't stop those who don't want to be stopped. Think hard before responding: Is locking people up making our society more safe, more peaceful, more kind, more just, or is it just a game of Whac-A-mole? You refuse to give Lessans a chance because you're so adamant that he was wrong. He wrote:

Of course locking up some people is making our society more safe. Only someone insane would claim otherwise. Conscience isn't God given, many of those locked up have little to no conscience and would continue to cause harm. They have little to no internal deterrent.

Your bluster will get you nowhere Atla. It is disproportionate to the discussion. I think it's because you've been disappointed many times before and you can't let down your guard. I never blamed you and I certainly don't think I'm holier than anyone. Now you're hitting below the belt telling me that I am part of the reason this world can't get anywhere. You've gone off your cotton pickin rocker.

I think this forum tops off as being the nastiest of them all. It makes perfect sense if people here think that they are all that; the cream of the crop, which gives them the right to be the guardians of truth.

Of course you keep blaming people, you don't have to use the word 'blame' for it.

Good thing your whole shtick isn't that you're a guardian of truth, eh?

People who have very low IQ's still have a conscience. You're barking up the wrong tree. Many of these so-called low I.Q. individuals don't have a mean bone in their body. You sound like a white supremacist. Do you believe in eugenics? God help us if that's your solution.

When you consider the big picture, stupidity is the most common form of "unintentional evil". Mainly because stupid people will forever elect the wrong leaders, everywhere.

No I don't actually believe in eugenics. Eugenics and genetic engineering would be the only way to save the world, but eugenics is too inhumane (not worth it), so the world is (probably) determined to be destroyed. That's what determinism actually says so I don't know why people think that determinism will unlock wonders. (Really our best hope could be to sell genetic engineering to the planet, and even if that might work, that process could take centuries and we may only have decades.) But hey I'm sure your God will save us.

Peacegirl, are some human 'wills' more free than others? Or are all human 'wills ' equally free?

Determinism implies that each and every event is a necessary event. It follows that every case of rape ,or genocide, was a necessary event. How then might we be free?

One deterministic answer that could appeal to you and others is that Christ is built into Nature/ Cosmos/God. The Cosmic Christ offers a way to save us from our cognitive and affective deficiencies.

(This is the version with the proper quotation boxes)

From ChatGPT:-

Spinoza (17th century) – God-or-Nature (Deus sive Natura)

Spinoza is a pure determinist: everything follows necessarily from the nature of God.

But “freedom” is redefined as understanding necessity: when you see how your actions flow from the eternal order, you participate in the divine intellect.

Some Christian interpreters (e.g., Schleiermacher, later process theologians) see in this the shadow of a “Christ principle”: liberation through clear sight of the Logos within necessity.

peacegirl wrote: ↑Wed Sep 17, 2025 3:23 pm

Atla wrote: ↑Wed Sep 17, 2025 3:01 pm

peacegirl wrote: ↑Wed Sep 17, 2025 2:17 pm God in this context is just a metaphor for the laws of our universe that our guiding us, and yes, they will save us. You are one hundred percent wrong that selling genetic engineering is our best hope to save the planet when it's not faulty genetics that are causing the problem Atla.

I never said they were faulty.

It is implied that you think altering our genetic code is the only answer to saving our planet. Stop playing word games with me.

peacegirl wrote: ↑Wed Sep 17, 2025 3:11 pm

Belinda wrote: ↑Wed Sep 17, 2025 10:23 am

peacegirl wrote: ↑Tue Sep 16, 2025 7:32 pm

Peacegirl, are some human 'wills' more free than others? Or are all human 'wills ' equally free?

Determinism implies that each and every event is a necessary event.

peacegirl wrote:That is true but it is misunderstood.

It follows that every case of rape ,or genocide, was a necessary event. How then might we be free?

One deterministic answer that could appeal to you and others is that Christ is built into nature/ Cosmos/God. The Cosmic Christ offers a way to save us from our cognitive and affective deficiencies.

From your post, this just shows me that you paid no attention to anything I've written. How can I go forward with this kind of questioning? I can't even begin to show you how confused you are Belinda, not because you're not smart, but because you have ignored what I have posted.

Atla wrote: ↑Wed Sep 17, 2025 4:05 pm

peacegirl wrote: ↑Wed Sep 17, 2025 3:23 pm

Atla wrote: ↑Wed Sep 17, 2025 3:01 pm
I never said they were faulty.

It is implied that you think altering our genetic code is the only answer to saving our planet. Stop playing word games with me.

They work as intended. They are only faulty if we hold that humanity is "supposed to" survive and prosper.

peacegirl wrote: ↑Wed Sep 17, 2025 4:01 pm

Belinda wrote: ↑Wed Sep 17, 2025 10:28 am

Atla wrote: ↑Wed Sep 17, 2025 4:05 am
Of course locking up some people is making our society more safe. Only someone insane would claim otherwise. Conscience isn't God given, many of those locked up have little to no conscience and would continue to cause harm. They have little to no internal deterrent.


Of course you keep blaming people, you don't have to use the word 'blame' for it.

Good thing your whole shtick isn't that you're a guardian of truth, eh?


When you consider the big picture, stupidity is the most common form of "unintentional evil". Mainly because stupid people will forever elect the wrong leaders, everywhere.

No I don't actually believe in eugenics. Eugenics and genetic engineering would be the only way to save the world, but eugenics is too inhumane (not worth it), so the world is (probably) determined to be destroyed. That's what determinism actually says so I don't know why people think that determinism will unlock wonders. (Really our best hope could be to sell genetic engineering to the planet, and even if that might work, that process could take centuries and we may only have decades.) But hey I'm sure your God will save us.

Peacegirl, are some human 'wills' more free than others? Or are all human 'wills ' equally free?

Determinism implies that each and every event is a necessary event. It follows that every case of rape ,or genocide, was a necessary event. How then might we be free?

One deterministic answer that could appeal to you and others is that Christ is built into Nature/ Cosmos/God. The Cosmic Christ offers a way to save us from our cognitive and affective deficiencies.

(This is the version with the proper quotation boxes)

From ChatGPT:-

Spinoza (17th century) – God-or-Nature (Deus sive Natura)

Spinoza is a pure determinist: everything follows necessarily from the nature of God.

But “freedom” is redefined as understanding necessity: when you see how your actions flow from the eternal order, you participate in the divine intellect.

Some Christian interpreters (e.g., Schleiermacher, later process theologians) see in this the shadow of a “Christ principle”: liberation through clear sight of the Logos within necessity.

This has nothing to do with Christ as the God figure which has religious undertones. Spinoza was correct about determinism but he did not have the solution. Lessans spoke to this which, once again, indicates to me that you and others are grasping at straws.

peacegirl wrote: ↑Wed Sep 17, 2025 4:26 pm

Atla wrote: ↑Wed Sep 17, 2025 4:05 pm

peacegirl wrote: ↑Wed Sep 17, 2025 3:23 pm

It is implied that you think altering our genetic code is the only answer to saving our planet. Stop playing word games with me.

They work as intended. They are only faulty if we hold that humanity is "supposed to" survive and prosper.

You are presupposing that genetics isn’t flawed but along those lines you believe that humanity is supposed to survive and prosper. That seems to be the case considering the first law of nature (self-preservation) is our desire to survive and prosper at all costs, but as stated earlier, you’re barking up the wrong tree to think that fooling around with our genetic code is the answer to saving humanity. This is a dangerous idea typically coming from humans who think they are smarter than God himself (the metaphor for the invariable laws of our nature). We are an arrogant species!

Belinda wrote: ↑Wed Sep 17, 2025 4:42 pm

peacegirl wrote: ↑Wed Sep 17, 2025 4:01 pm

Belinda wrote: ↑Wed Sep 17, 2025 10:28 am

Peacegirl, are some human 'wills' more free than others? Or are all human 'wills ' equally free?

Determinism implies that each and every event is a necessary event. It follows that every case of rape ,or genocide, was a necessary event. How then might we be free?



One deterministic answer that could appeal to you and others is that Christ is built into Nature/ Cosmos/God. The Cosmic Christ offers a way to save us from our cognitive and affective deficiencies.

(This is the version with the proper quotation boxes)

From ChatGPT:-

This has nothing to do with Christ as the God figure which has religious undertones. Spinoza was correct about determinism but he did not have the solution. Lessans spoke to this which, once again, indicates to me that you and others are grasping at straws.

Spinoza's solution was use of reason. It is laughably arrogant to claim Spinoza's life and work is a "straw".

“peacegirl” wrote:I never said Spinoza’s life and work was a straw. I said you and others are grasping at straws.

I don't scold for not grasping the idea of the Cosmic Christ.It is not an easy idea.

“peacegirl” wrote:I don’t scold either but the term Cosmic Christ has religious undertones, which is why I use the term God as being much more inclusive since the word “Christ” leans toward Christianity and will turn some people off.

Atla wrote: ↑Wed Sep 17, 2025 5:10 pm

peacegirl wrote: ↑Wed Sep 17, 2025 4:26 pm

Atla wrote: ↑Wed Sep 17, 2025 4:05 pm

They work as intended. They are only faulty if we hold that humanity is "supposed to" survive and prosper.

You are presupposing that genetics isn’t flawed but along those lines you believe that humanity is supposed to survive and prosper. That seems to be the case considering the first law of nature (self-preservation) is our desire to survive and prosper at all costs, but as stated earlier, you’re barking up the wrong tree to think that fooling around with our genetic code is the answer to saving humanity. This is a dangerous idea typically coming from humans who think they are smarter than God himself (the metaphor for the invariable laws of our nature). We are an arrogant species!

I see at this point you're completely reduced to writing gibberish.

peacegirl wrote: ↑Wed Sep 17, 2025 5:32 pm by thinking you know more than the very laws that created you?

Atla wrote: ↑Wed Sep 17, 2025 5:35 pm

peacegirl wrote: ↑Wed Sep 17, 2025 5:32 pm by thinking you know more than the very laws that created you?

Intelligent design without a designer. "Awesome" trick.