Philosophy Now Forum

Alexis Jacobi wrote: ↑Wed Sep 21, 2022 11:30 pm

Harry Baird wrote: ↑Wed Sep 21, 2022 7:39 pmFeel free to share your methods of self-amusement!

🫢

Dude. You weren't supposed to go there. You're the love-sick fool, remember, not the lustful adulterer.

Nick_A wrote: ↑Wed Sep 21, 2022 11:29 pm the thread is only 237 post short of the most posts concerning Christianity making no sense. It is a remarkable achievement and once the record is established, there will be a celebration.

Well, we have worked hard to demonstrate that Christianity makes no sense -- so this is good news! The forum should be proud and serve as an example to others.

Lacewing wrote: ↑Wed Sep 21, 2022 11:42 pm

Nick_A wrote: ↑Wed Sep 21, 2022 11:29 pm the thread is only 237 post short of the most posts concerning Christianity making no sense. It is a remarkable achievement and once the record is established, there will be a celebration.

Well, we have worked hard to demonstrate that Christianity makes no sense -- so this is good news! The forum should be proud and serve as an example to others.

That is only in appearance. Or the shallow perspective. A nuanced mind must look more closely. The real task is there.

Alexis Jacobi wrote: ↑Wed Sep 21, 2022 11:47 pm

Lacewing wrote: ↑Wed Sep 21, 2022 11:42 pm

Nick_A wrote: ↑Wed Sep 21, 2022 11:29 pm the thread is only 237 post short of the most posts concerning Christianity making no sense. It is a remarkable achievement and once the record is established, there will be a celebration.

Well, we have worked hard to demonstrate that Christianity makes no sense -- so this is good news! The forum should be proud and serve as an example to others.

That is only in appearance. Or the shallow perspective. A nuanced mind must look more closely. The real task is there.

Hey, bring it up with Nick... he's the one who pointed it out.

Alexis Jacobi wrote: ↑Wed Sep 21, 2022 3:35 pm
The long excerpt quoted by LaceWing can be seen as a somewhat typical epiphany which is repeated in numerous of his novels and stories. I would not detract from its beauty and artfulness -- we are dealing with philosophical and mystical poetry -- yet still Hesse himself was aware that his confrontation with the East could only bear fruit when he resolved to *come back into himself*.

What Hesse describes in this final rhapsody of affinities is a metaphor for a cosmic dance of oneness, of unity since all creation and origins are contained in the one which started it all. The same logic compels all humans to be interrelated. Same principle, only further back, and we too have kinship to the stone. Existence from its very beginning is the upshot of ONE genealogy.

This idea isn't new to either East or West. The novel was published in 1922 when there was bound to be a more Western poetic perspective on the East. Jung himself was not immune to it. Nevertheless, the idea of oneness remains universal, an integration of processes reforming and transforming creating all varieties within the context of a single world.

In a work of fiction, poetic license is allowed; that doesn't make it wrong.

Lacewing wrote: ↑Thu Sep 22, 2022 12:16 am

Alexis Jacobi wrote: ↑Wed Sep 21, 2022 11:47 pm

Lacewing wrote: ↑Wed Sep 21, 2022 11:42 pm
Well, we have worked hard to demonstrate that Christianity makes no sense -- so this is good news! The forum should be proud and serve as an example to others.

That is only in appearance. Or the shallow perspective. A nuanced mind must look more closely. The real task is there.

Hey, bring it up with Nick... he's the one who pointed it out.

The fact that the interactions of all these posts with the intent of defining Christianity make no sense is award winning since it proves how Christianity becomes Christendom making it possible for The Great Beast to retain its position of power.

Nick_A wrote: ↑Thu Sep 22, 2022 2:28 am The fact that the interactions of all these posts with the intent of defining Christianity make no sense is award winning since it proves how Christianity becomes Christendom making it possible for The Great Beast to retain its position of power.

The Great Beast retaining its power within Christianity? Yes... it is surely there as well as anywhere. In fact, that's probably the only place where it is since Christianity created it and requires it to justify certain claims and beliefs that other people have no use for.

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Wed Sep 21, 2022 3:34 pm

Harry Baird wrote: ↑Wed Sep 21, 2022 12:57 am

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Wed Sep 21, 2022 12:34 am I told you what was wrong with your script.

I addressed your four weak protestations.

I don't think you did, at all...certainly not to my satisfaction, or to the satisfaction of any reasonable person.

WHY do 'you' WANT to continually come across as the MOST CONDESCENDING 'person' there is, here, "immanuel can"?

Putting "yourself" among the 'reasonable', and thus PUTTING EVERY one else DOWN, does 'you' NO favors AT ALL "immanuel can". And, in fact, this kind of misbehaving could NOT be MORE "christian" like.

So, besides BELIEVING that 'you' are HIGHER or BETTER than "others", 'your' WAYS are, literally, completely CONTRADICTING 'your' OWN BELIEFS about being a BETTER 'person', as well as about being a "christian" person. 'you', "immanuel can", are LESS "christian" than a "muslim" IS.

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Wed Sep 21, 2022 3:34 pm In fact, you didn't really bother to understand any of them, or to ask me for my reasons at all.

AND, 'you', "immanuel can", have SHOWN that you did NOT really bother to understand what has been POINTED OUT to you, NOR to even ask for reasons WHY they are being WRITTEN and POINTED OUT, to 'you'.

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Wed Sep 21, 2022 3:34 pm If you had, you'd certainly realize none of them were "weak"; in fact they were terminal to your construction of the situation.

They, OBVIOUSLY, do NOT have ANY STRENGTH WITHIN them, and this is just because they are NOT based on ANY thing of ANY ACTUAL substance NOR support.

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Wed Sep 21, 2022 3:34 pm But you didn't really care. You were too focused on having your way. Then you simply reverted to your old assumptions. And I'm sorry -- I'm just not interested in responding to a false question on artificially-imposed terms.

But you are VERY INTERESTED in WRITING, EXPRESSING, and SHARING your very OWN personal ASSUMPTIONS and BELIEFS, correct?

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Wed Sep 21, 2022 3:34 pm Since this isn't a conversation, as you say, but rather its apparently a prejudicial harangue or something like that, you're really in no position to complain that you never got the conversation you weren't looking to have.

But we've been over this enough, Harry, and I weary of repeating the point. Make your self-satisified declaration, if you wish. It changes neither my opinion, nor any facts of the case.

'you' have ALREADY SHOWN that YOUR OWN OPINION is NOT OPEN to CHANGE, "immanuel can".

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Wed Sep 21, 2022 3:34 pm Nor can I see any way you're going to decide to go back to normal conversation.

So here we stop. We're at a permanent impasse.

But that impasse will one day be broken, one way or the other. I can only say that I have no interest in seeing it come to that, and I hope you'll think it through before we get there.

So be well.

HERE is ANOTHER EXAMPLE of CONDESCENSION, in its HIGHEST FORM.

Which could NOT be MORE "UNCHRISTIAN" like. And, coming from the SELF-PROFESSED "christian" makes ALL of this MORE ABSURD, and MORE LAUGHABLE.

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Wed Sep 21, 2022 3:34 pm

Harry Baird wrote: ↑Wed Sep 21, 2022 12:57 am

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Wed Sep 21, 2022 12:34 am I told you what was wrong with your script.

I addressed your four weak protestations.

I don't think you did, at all...certainly not to my satisfaction, or to the satisfaction of any reasonable person.

WHY do 'you' WANT to continually come across as the MOST CONDESCENDING 'person' there is, here, "immanuel can"?

Putting "yourself" among the 'reasonable', and thus PUTTING EVERY one else DOWN, does 'you' NO favors AT ALL "immanuel can". And, in fact, this kind of misbehaving could NOT be MORE "christian" like.

So, besides BELIEVING that 'you' are HIGHER or BETTER than "others", 'your' WAYS are, literally, completely CONTRADICTING 'your' OWN BELIEFS about being a BETTER 'person', as well as about being a "christian" person. 'you', "immanuel can", are LESS "christian" than a "muslim" IS.

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Wed Sep 21, 2022 3:34 pm In fact, you didn't really bother to understand any of them, or to ask me for my reasons at all.

AND, 'you', "immanuel can", have SHOWN that you did NOT really bother to understand what has been POINTED OUT to you, NOR to even ask for reasons WHY they are being WRITTEN and POINTED OUT, to 'you'.

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Wed Sep 21, 2022 3:34 pm If you had, you'd certainly realize none of them were "weak"; in fact they were terminal to your construction of the situation.

They, OBVIOUSLY, do NOT have ANY STRENGTH WITHIN them, and this is just because they are NOT based on ANY thing of ANY ACTUAL substance NOR support.

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Wed Sep 21, 2022 3:34 pm But you didn't really care. You were too focused on having your way. Then you simply reverted to your old assumptions. And I'm sorry -- I'm just not interested in responding to a false question on artificially-imposed terms.

But you are VERY INTERESTED in WRITING, EXPRESSING, and SHARING your very OWN personal ASSUMPTIONS and BELIEFS, correct?

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Wed Sep 21, 2022 3:34 pm Since this isn't a conversation, as you say, but rather its apparently a prejudicial harangue or something like that, you're really in no position to complain that you never got the conversation you weren't looking to have.

But we've been over this enough, Harry, and I weary of repeating the point. Make your self-satisified declaration, if you wish. It changes neither my opinion, nor any facts of the case.

'you' have ALREADY SHOWN that YOUR OWN OPINION is NOT OPEN to CHANGE, "immanuel can".

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Wed Sep 21, 2022 3:34 pm Nor can I see any way you're going to decide to go back to normal conversation.

So here we stop. We're at a permanent impasse.

But that impasse will one day be broken, one way or the other. I can only say that I have no interest in seeing it come to that, and I hope you'll think it through before we get there.

So be well.

HERE is ANOTHER EXAMPLE of CONDESCENSION, in its HIGHEST FORM.

Which could NOT be MORE "UNCHRISTIAN" like. And, coming from the SELF-PROFESSED "christian" makes ALL of this MORE ABSURD, and MORE LAUGHABLE.

promethean75 wrote: ↑Wed Sep 21, 2022 3:58 pm "You on the other hand have been and are engaged and committed to sheer and obvious dishonesty and open lying..."

"Beware of the Mannies, the false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing but inwardly are ravenous wolves." - Matt 7:15

But, it must be remembered that "immanuel can" is NOT YET aware of what 'it' is ACTUALLY DOING.

"immanuel can", REALLY, is NOT AWARE of just how Dishonest 'it' is, is NOT AWARE of the OPEN lying, which is CLEARLY OBVIOUS, to 'us', and NOT even YET AWARE of just how DECEIVING 'it' REALLY IS. This is because 'it' is DECEIVING 'its' OWN 'self'. Which is EXACTLY HOW the 'devil' WORKS and what the stories about the 'devil' are REALLY ABOUT.

ALSO, because of the way THE QUESTION was PRESENTED to "immanuel can", and THE WAY that THAT QUESTION attempts to TRICK and DECEIVE 'this' is what is causing "immanuel can" to ALSO 'stand up' and FIGHT AGAINST.

SEE, BOTH "sides" here are just TRYING TO trick and fool EACH OTHER. EXACTLY how the 'devil' is SAID to WORK, and MISBEHAVE.

Nick_A wrote: ↑Wed Sep 21, 2022 4:48 pm Age

Nick_A wrote: ↑Wed Sep 21, 2022 2:10 am
Our task must be to free ourselves from this prison by widening our circle of compassion to embrace all living creatures and the whole of nature in its beauty.
Albert Einstein

HOW this CAN BE and IS ACTUALLY DONE, is, AGAIN, VERY SIMPLE and VERY EASY, indeed. AGAIN, that is; ONLY for those who Truly Want to LEARN and who are Truly CURIOS and INQUISITIVE.

I've been kicked out of enough secular sites to learn this is the unforgiveable question.

INFORM 'me' of 'what', EXACTLY, is the supposed 'unforgivable' question, then I can take a LOOK AT 'it', and then proceed to answer 'it' for you.

And, of the VERY, VERY FEW sites I have entered, where more 'scientific' discussions take place, "those people" are just as STRINGENT and "hell-bent" on their OWN BELIEFS as "those people" in 'religious' sites. BOTH mobs of 'peoples' are AS BLIND as EACH "other".

Now, if YOUR so-called 'unforgivable question' just refers to something like; HOW can 'you', adult human beings, gain MORE COMPASSION for ALL 'things', EQUALLY? Then the answer to this is, AGAIN, VERY SIMPLE to EXPLAIN, and VERY EASY to UNDERSTAND. BUT, if YOUR 'unforgivable' question is some thing else, then just express 'it' VERY CLEARLY.

Nick_A wrote: ↑Wed Sep 21, 2022 4:48 pm I would no longer try it again but would support those who do. How can anyone be motivated by the objective truth of the human condition when they are asleep in Plato's Cave?

NO one can be 'motivated' when they ARE ASLEEP.

And, you can NOT 'WAKE' ANY one up, successfully, who does NOT YET want to be 'WOKEN'. They will only 'awake' cranky or irritable, if 'WOKEN' too early.

There is NO RUSH, and thee 'I' is in NO HURRY, so 'I' just WAIT, PATIENTLY, for those who are Truly READY, AWAKE, and thus Truly WANT, to LEARN.

Nick_A wrote: ↑Wed Sep 21, 2022 4:48 pm That is why you lack humility. You have yet to experience your nothingness as opposed to wishful thinking. This recognition is essential for awakening.

AND, HOW do 'you' KNOW that I have NOT ALREADY experienced MY True, ABSOLUTE, and IRREFUTABLE 'nothingness', which is what led 'me' to KNOWING what I, NOW, KNOW?

WHY do 'you', "nick_a", ASSUME that 'you' have GAINED MORE KNOWLEDGE, or WISDOM, than 'I'.

Do 'you' even KNOW HOW to answer the question, properly AND correctly, 'Who am 'I', YET?

If yes, then what IS thee ANSWER?

But if no, then WHY CAN 'I', and NOT 'you'?

And, by the way, what has that 'you' been AWOKEN TO, ACTUALLY?

Also, have 'you' NOT YET NOTICED the CONDESCENSION when continually CLAIMING that it IS the "other" who 'lacks humility'?

The CONDESCENSION, itself, PROVES the CLAIM that, 'IT IS THE "OTHER", who 'LACKS HUMILITY', who is the ONE Truly 'lacking humility'.

CLAIMING that the "other" 'LACKS HUMILITY' is the EGO, AT WORK, and the CONDESCENDING NATURE of the CLAIM, MAKES the CLAIM HYPOCRITICAL AND CONTRADICTORY.

WHEN 'you' Truly WAKE UP 'you' will SEE and UNDERSTAND that, REALLY, 'you' are ONLY JUST A PART of 'I'.

Age wrote: ↑Thu Sep 22, 2022 7:43 am THAT QUESTION attempts to TRICK and DECEIVE

Huh? My question is straightforward and honest. What do you think is tricky and deceptive about it?

Nick_A wrote: ↑Thu Sep 22, 2022 2:28 am The fact that the interactions of all these posts with the intent of defining Christianity make no sense is award winning since it proves how Christianity becomes Christendom making it possible for The Great Beast to retain its position of power.

Nick_A, do you think that there is a normative definition of Christianity (with which, of course, we should then all agree), and, if so, what is that normative definition in your own words?

In all honesty, although you have written a fair bit in this thread, I still don't fully understand how you define Christianity. I don't even understand the extent to which you consider the Bible to be accurate/reliable, nor the extent to which you consider Jesus Christ himself to be (1) an historical person, and (2) the literal saviour of the world, and, to the extent that you disclaim either of those, what you actually believe about Jesus Christ (and about the Bible).

A while back, I asked you some questions to try to clarify this, and you ignored them. Fine, that's your right, but it's odd that you'd complain about us not agreeing on a definition of Christianity in this thread when you ignore attempts to clarify your own definition.

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Wed Sep 21, 2022 5:04 pm

Alexis Jacobi wrote: ↑Wed Sep 21, 2022 3:47 pm You on the other hand have been and are engaged and committed to sheer and obvious dishonesty and open lying.

Well, we'll see if that turns out to be true.

Absolutely NO one has to WAIT, to SEE what thee ACTUAL and IRREFUTABLE Truth IS HERE.

'you', "immanuel can", are being Dishonest, and OPENLY lying, just like the "other side" is being Dishonest, and OPENLY lying, to 'you'.

'you' are BOTH 'trying to' ATTACK and FIGHT "each other" INSTEAD of just WORKING TOGETHER, as One.

This DIVIDING and CONQUERING is EXACTLY how the 'devil' WORKS, and WANTS 'you' TWO to MISBEHAVE to "each other" like.

Nick_A wrote: ↑Wed Sep 21, 2022 4:48 pm The Bible says one thing, you say another.

AND, ANOTHER will say ANOTHER 'thing', and then ANOTHER will say ANOTHER 'thing', and ALL THE TIME 'you' ALL BELIEVE that what 'you' are EACH saying is the true, right, AND correct 'thing'.

Also, and by the way, just so 'you' are COMPLETELY and UTTERLY FULLY AWARE "immanuel can", CONTRARY TO WHAT 'you' BELIEVE, what the bible ACTUALLY SAYS, and STATES, 'you' have NOT YET HEARD, and SO 'you' do NOT YET KNOW.

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Wed Sep 21, 2022 5:04 pm And Harry insists that what the Bible says cannot possibly come true, because his understanding of it offends him.

And what "immanuel can" INSISTS, can NOT possibly BE nor COME true, because "immanuel cans" understanding OFFENDS 'it'.

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Wed Sep 21, 2022 5:04 pm One version of the truth is going to win. That's for sure.

LOL
LOL
LOL
LOL

NOW HERE is a WHY it took SO, SO, LONG for human beings to FIND and SEE thee ACTUAL Truth of 'things'.

Human beings used to ONCE think or BELIEVE that their OWN versions of 'truth' of things was the true, right, and Correct ONE, without EVER REALLY CONTEMPLATING that the True, Right, AND Correct 'version' is ONE that they had NOT YET even CONSIDERED and thus IMAGINED.

Which, by the way, thee ONE 'version' of Truth, which is ABSOLUTE and thus IRREFUTABLE, is One that just about ALL 'human beings, in the days when this was being written, had NOT YET even CONSIDERED and thus HAD NOT YET even CONTEMPLATED and DISCUSSED ABOUT. And, the reason for this is BECAUSE they were TOO BUSY 'trying to' ARGUE FOR and FIGHT OVER their OWN personal 'versions' of 'truth'.

ALSO, there is NO 'version' of 'truth' that so-call 'wins'. Thee 'truth', which is IRREFUTABLE, is JUST the ONLY Truth that is REALLY WORTH LOOKING AT, and SHARING. And, 'that Truth' is CERTAINLY NOT the one "immanuel can" BELIEVES here, NOR is 'it' the MISINTERPRETED 'version' that EVERY one else here has been TALKING ABOUT and DISCUSSING.

Thee ACTUAL and IRREFUTABLE Truth is VERY DIFFERENT, INDEED.

iambiguous wrote: ↑Wed Sep 21, 2022 5:16 pm

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Wed Sep 21, 2022 5:04 pm

Alexis Jacobi wrote: ↑Wed Sep 21, 2022 3:47 pm You on the other hand have been and are engaged and committed to sheer and obvious dishonesty and open lying.

Well, we'll see if that turns out to be true. The Bible says one thing, you say another. And Harry insists that what the Bible says cannot possibly come true, because his understanding of it offends him.

One version of the truth is going to win. That's for sure.

And it's always important to note just how many versions of the truth are now out there to choose from:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_r ... traditions

And just within the Western Christianity denominations:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_r ... ristianity

Though, sure, it might be Mannie's very own One True Path that nails it.

There can be as MANY 'truths' as there are human beings CONTEMPLATING 'truth'. BUT, there is ONLY One ACTUAL and IRREFUTABLE Truth. Which, by the way, IS EXTREMELY SIMPLE and EASY to DISTINGUISH between and from ALL of the OTHER 'truths'.

By the way, what, EXACTLY is "immanuel can's" very own, so-called, One Truth Path?