Philosophy Now Forum

tillingborn wrote: ↑Tue Dec 29, 2020 11:16 pm Hunter Biden is under investigation;

Good thing, too. We might discover who is "the big guy" through that.

As someone who takes their faith seriously, can I ask how you interpret Judge not, that ye be not judged?

Well, I suggest that you should look at the context of that one, if you want to know what it means; because it's certainly very clear there. It refers to judging the sin of another person while not judging one's own: in other words, to judgmental hypocrisy. And of course, that is wrong. Men are not the Judge, nor are they capable of judging others. As the passage says, you must take the beam out of your own eye before looking for the speck in somebody else's. Fair enough.

But any of that suggest there's no Great Judgment coming, or that God Himself does not judge? Let's see.

Jesus said:

"If anyone hears My teachings and does not keep them, I do not judge him; for I did not come to judge the world, but to save the world. The one who rejects Me and does not accept My teachings has one who judges him: the word which I spoke. That will judge him on the last day." (John 12:47-48)

Paul said,

"So having overlooked the times of ignorance, God is now proclaiming to mankind that all people everywhere are to repent, because He has set a day on which He will judge the world in righteousness through a Man whom He has appointed, having furnished proof to all people by raising Him from the dead.” (Acts17:30-31)

Lacewing wrote: ↑Tue Dec 29, 2020 6:45 pm

Walker wrote: ↑Tue Dec 29, 2020 4:28 pm

Lacewing wrote: ↑Tue Dec 29, 2020 2:36 pm
Considering how a group of Republican lawmakers have been willing to continually support and push for an agenda of lies despite all logic and rulings to the contrary, who with more than a simple pawn's brain should give a fuck what they're saying now?

Because of the objective evidence.

Duh.

According to ???... and ignoring???... and despite???... AH YES... it's all so clear!!!

It certainly should be by now. The objective evidence is the numbers. The anomalies. The statistical improbabilities.

This particular one is easy. It's just arithmetic. Ten-foot high neon in red. More than enough probable cause to throw the election to the states with this one incident.

But that won't happen. The swamp wants Trump gone and without the Republican Party to back him up, he doesn't have much of a chance. It takes tremendous party unity and discipline, and only the Democrats have that. They will sacrifice anyone and anything for ideology: the economy, the health of children locked in their homes, shattered lives, you know the drill. They've got all the ducks lined up and the lobbyists have already written the legislation to ram through in the next two years, should they win Georgia. Odds are really good they will because all the observers with their attention on the senate runoff want Trump gone, too.

I'm astonished that he accomplished so much during the distractions and noise of so much focused opposition. An amazing display of discipline and intelligence for a freshman politician.

Thing is, no one will say why they hate him, other than his personality, which is a hard-ass businessman with a good heart, which is why so many appreciate him, and it's the reason why so many hate him.

Democrats are in power. With Trump gone it will be time to go to war, time for the terrorists to again rise up, as they always do with a weak US president. Who's gonna be the lucky country this time?

In his recent campaign, Trump promised to bring back manufacturing to the US. He promised to make the US the world leader in manufacturing. If he did that there would be jobs, wealth, and room for all the immigrants with occupations suited to the needed labor. Unions could again have a big voice. He could have done it. He knows what is wrong. The country needs manufacturing. Small business, far fewer regulations and taxes.

He knew what was wrong with middle east relations. The solution was economics. New countries became peaceful economic allies.

Now the Obama crew’s interests can get back to normal, literally. Damn shame. Biden has already announced that this winter is going to be grim. He does know how to set a realistic bar to match his ignorance of human potential. That’s what happens after a lifetime of conniving and crookedness.

Walker wrote: ↑Wed Dec 30, 2020 2:17 am The swamp wants Trump gone

The swamp is stronger than Trump? Then he's a loser... and his claims about draining it were bogus bullshit.

Walker wrote: ↑Wed Dec 30, 2020 2:17 amand without the Republican Party to back him up

Now they don't like him either? After years of lying and sacrificing their remaining shreds of integrity and honor as his devoted pawns? Geez, he's REALLY a loser.

Walker wrote: ↑Wed Dec 30, 2020 2:17 amhe doesn't have much of a chance.

Boo (fucking) Hoo!

Walker wrote: ↑Wed Dec 30, 2020 2:17 amIt takes tremendous party unity and discipline, and only the Democrats have that.

Oh really?

Walker wrote: ↑Wed Dec 30, 2020 2:17 amThey will sacrifice anyone and anything for ideology

So who are we talking about now?

Walker wrote: ↑Wed Dec 30, 2020 2:17 amall the observers with their attention on the senate runoff want Trump gone, too.

Because he's a fucking disaster and major idiot.

Walker wrote: ↑Wed Dec 30, 2020 2:17 amI'm astonished that he accomplished so much during the distractions and noise of so much focused opposition. An amazing display of discipline and intelligence for a freshman politician.

You are such an intoxicated nutjob.

Walker wrote: ↑Wed Dec 30, 2020 2:17 amThing is, no one will say why they hate him, other than his personality

No, that's just your claim because you can't handle the truth. You close your ears and your mind, and keep repeating what serves you.

Walker wrote: ↑Wed Dec 30, 2020 2:17 amwhich is a hard-ass businessman with a good heart, which is why so many appreciate him, and it's the reason why so many hate him.

No, people don't like how destructive and disrespectful he is to common decency and his fellow man. He's a liar and a con man, and you are conned.

Walker wrote: ↑Wed Dec 30, 2020 2:17 amDemocrats are in power. With Trump gone it will be time to go to war, time for the terrorists to again rise up, as they always do with a weak US president. Who's gonna be the lucky country this time?

It's hard to win with politics and the war games men play. It's ALL very stupid. Only fools think that "their side" is glorious despite all of its corruption and deception and destruction. Your inability to notice Trump's destruction shows how buried in it you are. Swallowing all of it. You only see destruction from the Democratic side. That's truly stupid.

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Tue Dec 29, 2020 11:34 pm

tillingborn wrote: ↑Tue Dec 29, 2020 11:16 pmAs someone who takes their faith seriously, can I ask how you interpret Judge not, that ye be not judged?

Well, I suggest that you should look at the context of that one, if you want to know what it means; because it's certainly very clear there. It refers to judging the sin of another person while not judging one's own: in other words, to judgmental hypocrisy. And of course, that is wrong. Men are not the Judge, nor are they capable of judging others. As the passage says, you must take the beam out of your own eye before looking for the speck in somebody else's. Fair enough.

I can't tell from the context you have provided why the God you believe is going to judge you would not consider this judgemental:

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Mon Dec 28, 2020 8:30 pmBut anybody with two eyes can see that Joe Biden is the senile, corrupt patsy of the extreme Left.

Can you also put into the appropriate context the fact that you accused me of dodging questions, which is something you do as a matter of routine. This is just the latest question you have dodged:

tillingborn wrote: ↑Tue Dec 29, 2020 11:16 pmWould it have been fair to refuse Donald Trump the presidency in 2016, given that there were some people who believed they could uncover corruption by examining his tax returns?

When I don't answer your questions, I explain why; and if you persist, I answer them. Since you mention fairness, I presume you think it would be fair for you to extend me the same courtesy.

Lacewing wrote: ↑Wed Dec 30, 2020 3:00 amIt's hard to win with politics and the war games men play. It's ALL very stupid. Only fools think that "their side" is glorious despite all of its corruption and deception and destruction.

Agreed. It's a bit like watching drunks arguing about their favourite football teams sometimes.

Lacewing, I think we’re all fortunate that your world is in you.

Politics is more interesting than many paths into philosophy because it directly connects with mind forces that influence the quality of life in objective ways.

I’ve not read this woman’s novels but I’ve heard her target audience is sexually frustrated females.

She is the powerhouse of the Georgia election process.
Quite a character. A dynamo humm.
Stacey Abrams.

Walker

It certainly should be by now. The objective evidence is the numbers. The anomalies. The statistical improbabilities.

This particular one is easy. It's just arithmetic. Ten-foot high neon in red. More than enough probable cause to throw the election to the states with this one incident.

But that won't happen. The swamp wants Trump gone and without the Republican Party to back him up, he doesn't have much of a chance. It takes tremendous party unity and discipline, and only the Democrats have that. They will sacrifice anyone and anything for ideology: the economy, the health of children locked in their homes, shattered lives, you know the drill. They've got all the ducks lined up and the lobbyists have already written the legislation to ram through in the next two years, should they win Georgia. Odds are really good they will because all the observers with their attention on the senate runoff want Trump gone, too.

The swamp has proven that American citizens no longer have "Standing." At one time American citizens were believed to have standing. It is what gave them equality under the law. It assured them that the government works for the people rather than the people working for the government as with people without standing.

I first noticed it when people asked for proof of Obama's eligibility in order to do their duty and cast an educated vote. It seemed normal enough for the boss (the people) to ask for proof of eligibility to be president. They were told they were racists so didn't have standing. They were in fact too stupid and unworthy to have standing. They didn't deserve the protection of constitutional law now that they work for the government.

The courts have said American citizens do not have standing to deserve proof of a legitimate election. They do not have the standing to question their political superiors. The government no longer works for them. Lacking standing, they work for the government. What else can a basket of deplorables expect? The acceptance of fraud in this election seems odd but when we realize that the people no longer deserve standing and now work for the government it is called progress and who can be against progress?

tillingborn wrote: ↑Wed Dec 30, 2020 9:52 am

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Tue Dec 29, 2020 11:34 pm

tillingborn wrote: ↑Tue Dec 29, 2020 11:16 pmAs someone who takes their faith seriously, can I ask how you interpret Judge not, that ye be not judged?

Well, I suggest that you should look at the context of that one, if you want to know what it means; because it's certainly very clear there. It refers to judging the sin of another person while not judging one's own: in other words, to judgmental hypocrisy. And of course, that is wrong. Men are not the Judge, nor are they capable of judging others. As the passage says, you must take the beam out of your own eye before looking for the speck in somebody else's. Fair enough.

I can't tell from the context you have provided why the God you believe is going to judge you would not consider this judgemental:

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Mon Dec 28, 2020 8:30 pmBut anybody with two eyes can see that Joe Biden is the senile, corrupt patsy of the extreme Left.

It's factual.

His senility is manifest to anybody who sees what he says at all. Just google "Joe Biden forgets..." or "Joe Biden dementia," and you'll get a ton of videos, some unedited at all, of the man wandering around mentally lost and saying things that make no sense at all.

So to say "senility" is the kindest reading; if the man were inherently that mentally mixed-up, it would be inexplicable that he's survived in politics. Needless to add, this makes him totally vulnerable to the manipulations of the extreme Left, as any mentally-incompetent person would be. So all that is just the clear testimony of one's eyes.

And it has nothing to do with judging the man's worth as a human being, or with his spiritual standing. It doesn't even have to do with his past misdeeds or sins, which I do not know. As the passage says, all that's not what we are competent to judge. But that does not imply we must all remain blind to the obvious evidence of a man's medical state at this particular point in his life.

If you were to assume that "judge not" referred to such things, then it would not be a ban on spiritual judging, but a prohibition on science, medicine, and even common sense. And all that, you can see, it is not.

Can you also put into the appropriate context the fact that you accused me of dodging questions...

Yes.

The question you won't answer is: "Who is plausibly 'the big guy' in Hunter Biden's revelation on his laptop?"

That's not a "judgment." That's just a fact, if you haven't, in fact, answered the question posed to you. Are you going to answer it? Then the facts change. Again, no judgment implied.

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Wed Dec 30, 2020 3:43 pmHis senility is manifest to anybody who sees what he says at all. Just google "Joe Biden forgets..." or "Joe Biden dementia," and you'll get a ton of videos, some unedited at all, of the man wandering around mentally lost and saying things that make no sense at all.

I googled 'Joe Biden forgets', as requested. I looked at the first page of videos, noticed that there were several repeats and sampled each of what I took to be a separate incidence. None of them were of anything that I haven't done myself. If there is one video of something you have watched that shows Joe Biden doing something which, with God as your witness, you have never done yourself, could you provide a link, please? In the interest of fairness, I also googled 'Donald Trump forgets'. I did the same for Boris Johnson, Justin Trudeau, Angela Merkel and Emmanuel Macron. Were you to do likewise and fail to similarly diagnose all of them, you should really question your impartiality.
Further to that, if you think forgetfulness is a sign of senility, it might trouble you to be reminded that we have already discussed this:

tillingborn wrote: ↑Sat Dec 19, 2020 11:49 amI am not qualified to diagnose senility, certainly I have seen him stumble over his words and struggle with pointed questions, but any fair observer could say the same of Donald Trump. These are two gentlemen in their seventies, I didn't think it was necessary for Biden to jog onto stage, as he recently did, nor do I think that Donald Trump taking care on a ramp should be criticised.

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Wed Dec 30, 2020 3:43 pm

Can you also put into the appropriate context the fact that you accused me of dodging questions...

Yes.

As soon as you stop dodging the question, "Who is plausibly 'the big guy' in Hunter Biden's revelation on his laptop?"

This was only two days ago:

tillingborn wrote: ↑Mon Dec 28, 2020 3:29 pm

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Mon Dec 28, 2020 3:11 pmI'm asking you who any other plausible candidate would be...somebody to whom Hunter Biden has control of-access, who is "bigger" than HB, and who, we know, joined HB in receiving a sizeable portion of 5 million dollars from foreign governments. If you've got another candidate for that, I'm ready to hear who it would be. But that's the question in hand.

I have no idea who might be another plausible candidate.

That you either cannot process that, or remember it could be taken as evidence of your mental decline by someone wishing to do so. As for Joe Biden, Donald Trump et al, I think there is too little data to make such a diagnosis.
So, having reminded you that I have answered your question; for the third time:

tillingborn wrote: ↑Tue Dec 29, 2020 11:16 pmWould it have been fair to refuse Donald Trump the presidency in 2016, given that there were some people who believed they could uncover corruption by examining his tax returns?

Walker wrote: ↑Tue Dec 29, 2020 4:29 pm

Sculptor wrote: ↑Tue Dec 29, 2020 3:58 pm
I am a pacifist ...

I don't think that word means what you think it means, despite the weaselly qualifiers.

I know what it means.
Trump deserves to die; that is my exception.

You've seen the videos, then, but claim not to have seen anything.

You're right: I can't beat that strategy.

But we can settle the question. What we need is for Biden to undergo full medical testing for competency. There is certainly probable cause for an investigation into his mental health, if only to assure the American public that their chief official is of sound mind. That's a minimum expectation, surely.

tillingborn wrote: ↑Wed Dec 30, 2020 5:08 pm I have no idea who might be another plausible candidate.

So the most plausible candidate is Joe Biden. That warrants and investigation, does it not?

...Donald Trump...

...is utterly irrelevant to the question of Joe Biden.

Donald Trump, even if terribly, terribly bad, will not make Biden good, or mentally sound, or not corrupt (if we find he is), or capable of leading the most important world power, if he's not. Not one thing DT ever does will change Biden's situation. That's an "et tu quoque" fallacy.

So an investigation into his dealings with Burisma and the Chinese is certainly warranted.

Walker wrote: ↑Wed Dec 30, 2020 11:59 am Lacewing, I think we’re all fortunate that your world is in you.

What a weird thing to say.

Do you imagine that you, yourself, speak of great truths and a reality that all should see and agree on? You continually demonstrate how skewed and blind you are, so how valuable or truthful can that be?

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Wed Dec 30, 2020 5:54 pmYou've seen the videos, then, but claim not to have seen anything.

No. I said this:

tillingborn wrote: ↑Wed Dec 30, 2020 5:08 pmI googled 'Joe Biden forgets', as requested. I looked at the first page of videos, noticed that there were several repeats and sampled each of what I took to be a separate incidence. None of them were of anything that I haven't done myself. If there is one video of something you have watched that shows Joe Biden doing something which, with God as your witness, you have never done yourself, could you provide a link, please? In the interest of fairness, I also googled 'Donald Trump forgets'. I did the same for Boris Johnson, Justin Trudeau, Angela Merkel and Emmanuel Macron. Were you to do likewise and fail to similarly diagnose all of them, you should really question your impartiality.

People forget things, people act strangely, and people in the public eye get caught on camera doing so.

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Wed Dec 30, 2020 5:54 pmYou're right: I can't beat that strategy.

It's just honesty, but no, I don't think you can beat it.

tillingborn wrote: ↑Wed Dec 30, 2020 6:30 pm People forget things, people act strangely, and people in the public eye get caught on camera doing so.

When they are in their late years, and when they do so repeatedly, at bizarre times, with things they absolutely should remember, and cannot keep straight basic details of life such as where they are at a given time, then anybody who loves them sends them for a medical diagnosis. And it's quite possible that when they do that, they'll find Biden's no longer competent to stand trial for his dealings with Hunter Biden. So the two investigations would have an important impact on one another.

But can I beat the strategy if you see the evidence but then refuse to recognize what you're seeing? No, nobody can. They can present the evidence to you; they cannot make you perceive it. "There are none so blind as those who will not see," goes the aphorism.

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Wed Dec 30, 2020 6:42 pm

tillingborn wrote: ↑Wed Dec 30, 2020 6:30 pm People forget things, people act strangely, and people in the public eye get caught on camera doing so.

When they are in their late years, and when they do so repeatedly, at bizarre times, with things they absolutely should remember, and cannot keep straight basic details of life such as where they are at a given time, then anybody who loves them sends them for a medical diagnosis. And it's quite possible that when they do that, they'll find Biden's no longer competent to stand trial for his dealings with Hunter Biden. So the two investigations would have an important impact on one another.

It's a bit late to start pretending that your diatribes against Joe Biden are born of concern for his well being.

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Wed Dec 30, 2020 6:42 pmBut can I beat the strategy if you see the evidence but then refuse to recognize what you're seeing? No, nobody can. They can present the evidence to you; they cannot make you perceive it. "There are none so blind as those who will not see," goes the aphorism.

Indeed. You have twice refused to see this:

tillingborn wrote: ↑Wed Dec 30, 2020 5:08 pmI googled 'Joe Biden forgets', as requested. I looked at the first page of videos, noticed that there were several repeats and sampled each of what I took to be a separate incidence. None of them were of anything that I haven't done myself. If there is one video of something you have watched that shows Joe Biden doing something which, with God as your witness, you have never done yourself, could you provide a link, please? In the interest of fairness, I also googled 'Donald Trump forgets'. I did the same for Boris Johnson, Justin Trudeau, Angela Merkel and Emmanuel Macron. Were you to do likewise and fail to similarly diagnose all of them, you should really question your impartiality.

I went back to that search to check. I could not find a

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Wed Dec 30, 2020 3:43 pmton of videos, some unedited at all, of the man wandering around mentally lost and saying things that make no sense at all.

So I tried your other suggestion and googled Joe Biden dementia. The top result was associated with an article in The Independent, the opening line of which was: "A manipulated video falsely touted as "proof" Joe Biden has dementia was reportedly viewed more than one million times on Twitter over the weekend."
The fact that we apparently experience very different responses to our respective google searches suggests one of two things to me. Either you are a delusional conservative lunatic; or based on our browsing history, google algorithms have determined that you and I deserve different versions of reality. Here is the top result that I get: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yAHoul4IYMY Is that the sort of evidence you are referring to?