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Re: Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment
Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2012 10:01 pm
by bobevenson
SpheresOfBalance wrote:SpheresOfBalance wrote:What is rich, after all?
bobevenson wrote:That can only be determined under a system of free-market capitalism and personal freedom.
SpheresOfBalance wrote:Incorrect, rich is a matter of mind, and is relative like, and subject to, that of value. It is a subjective decision.
bobevenson wrote:That's just your point of view, and it certainly doesn't negate another person's point of view. Within a free-market milieu, everybody is able to draw his own conclusion.
SpheresOfBalance wrote:OK, back at me huh? Of course that can be said to be true, but my way of thinking opens the doors to many possibilities, potentially negating the ruling class, while yours is an unoriginal, stale, archaic, limiting idea, that is steeped in elitism!
bobevenson wrote:A person who writes in red is an elitist, no?
SpheresOfBalance wrote:Symbolism in color, huh? 
Yeah, Bob you're right, what ever you want Bob! I simply alternate colors for delineation's sake, Bob.
bobevenson wrote:Oh, if it's only for delineation's sake, then it's OK. We don't want to shortchange delineation, do we?
SpheresOfBalance wrote:I take it you have a mouse in your pocket...
bobevenson wrote:No, I'm just happy to see you.
Re: Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment
Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2012 10:48 pm
by Arising_uk
p.s.
My apologies sushil_yadav,
I see that 'destroying mind' is partly to do with your idea of a lessening of emotions, and something to do with attention processing times.
As such I think there are newish techniques and systems of thought like New Code NLP that can rebalance such things.
Re: Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment
Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2012 11:45 pm
by SpheresOfBalance
SpheresOfBalance wrote:What is rich, after all?
bobevenson wrote:That can only be determined under a system of free-market capitalism and personal freedom.
SpheresOfBalance wrote:Incorrect, rich is a matter of mind, and is relative like, and subject to, that of value. It is a subjective decision.
bobevenson wrote:That's just your point of view, and it certainly doesn't negate another person's point of view. Within a free-market milieu, everybody is able to draw his own conclusion.
SpheresOfBalance wrote:OK, back at me huh? Of course that can be said to be true, but my way of thinking opens the doors to many possibilities, potentially negating the ruling class, while yours is an unoriginal, stale, archaic, limiting idea, that is steeped in elitism!
bobevenson wrote:A person who writes in red is an elitist, no?
SpheresOfBalance wrote:Symbolism in color, huh? Yeah, Bob you're right, what ever you want Bob! I simply alternate colors for delineation's sake, Bob.
bobevenson wrote:Oh, if it's only for delineation's sake, then it's OK. We don't want to shortchange delineation, do we?
SpheresOfBalance wrote:I take it you have a mouse in your pocket...
bobevenson wrote:No, I'm just happy to see you.
Now you see me, now you...
Re: Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment
Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 12:04 am
by SpheresOfBalance
Arising_uk wrote:p.s.
My apologies sushil_yadav,
I see that 'destroying mind' is partly to do with your idea of a lessening of emotions, and something to do with attention processing times.
As such I think there are newish techniques and systems of thought like New Code NLP that can rebalance such things.
You know Arising_uk, it's funny that we are all victims of programming, and that if you asked most they would either deny it, or if seen and understood, they would be appalled by it, and here we have some people that are brave enough to actually use it in the name of their technique of alteration, at least they're honest.
You know what they say about NLP, right?
Garbage in, garbage out.
Well, actually not specifically NLP, but...
Which leads one to consider the relinquishing of self control to another flawed human individual, and the implications/ramifications that can 'lie' therein.
Re: Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment
Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 12:11 am
by bobevenson
SpheresOfBalance wrote:SpheresOfBalance wrote:What is rich, after all?
bobevenson wrote:That can only be determined under a system of free-market capitalism and personal freedom.
SpheresOfBalance wrote:Incorrect, rich is a matter of mind, and is relative like, and subject to, that of value. It is a subjective decision.
bobevenson wrote:That's just your point of view, and it certainly doesn't negate another person's point of view. Within a free-market milieu, everybody is able to draw his own conclusion.
SpheresOfBalance wrote:OK, back at me huh? Of course that can be said to be true, but my way of thinking opens the doors to many possibilities, potentially negating the ruling class, while yours is an unoriginal, stale, archaic, limiting idea, that is steeped in elitism!
bobevenson wrote:A person who writes in red is an elitist, no?
SpheresOfBalance wrote:Symbolism in color, huh? Yeah, Bob you're right, what ever you want Bob! I simply alternate colors for delineation's sake, Bob.
bobevenson wrote:Oh, if it's only for delineation's sake, then it's OK. We don't want to shortchange delineation, do we?
SpheresOfBalance wrote:I take it you have a mouse in your pocket...
bobevenson wrote:No, I'm just happy to see you.
SpheresOfBalance wrote:Now you see me, now you...
bobevenson wrote:I was just doing my Mae West impression. You know who I mean, don't you?
Re: Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment
Posted: Sat Mar 03, 2012 5:47 pm
by Arising_uk
SpheresOfBalance wrote:Some people, in an attempt to actualize their selfish desires, bundle them in a package that can easily be sold to the populace.
Some people burble, what are you saying here?
peoples love of civilization, is actually the shelter from chaos that it seems to afford; it keeps them alive in an otherwise harsh world. However it is a double edged sword, and I do not except the other cut, such that for me, your point is empty.
What is this "other cut"? You'd prefer others to die?
Those fearing the inevitable find refuge in civilization as they accept what they believe is a lessor evil. In this selfish perspective they find their acceptance, despite their trading off others freedoms for theirs, and in the ascent of these stairs of human wreckage, their relative freedom is realized, depending upon the determination in their treading, but in truth they'll never get out of here alive, they just believe that they're somehow staying off the inevitable. It's all just an illusion fueled by the wake of their wreckage, no matter how slightly they wish to perceive it.
You are a nihilist, a pessimist and a fatalist. Its why you dress-up much of your stuff with the 'one love and peace to all' guff. The point of living with others is that one also trades-off ones own selfish freedoms, its called politics.
People only seem to really need people so they can build a skeletal stairway to their own relative private heaven.
And others to support their absolutist dreams.
Re: Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment
Posted: Sat Mar 03, 2012 5:55 pm
by Arising_uk
SpheresOfBalance wrote:You know Arising_uk, it's funny that we are all victims of programming, and that if you asked most they would either deny it, or if seen and understood, they would be appalled by it, and here we have some people that are brave enough to actually use it in the name of their technique of alteration, at least they're honest.
You have victimhood to much upon the brain. Its just the process of how we think and perceive, no great plot.
You know what they say about NLP, right?
Garbage in, garbage out.
Well, actually not specifically NLP, but...
No 'but' about it, this saying is to do with databases but NLP and New Code NLP is just a bunch of techniques from psychotherapy that worked upon the ailing and work even better upon the well when it comes to learning, thoughting, thinking and wanted outcomes.
Which leads one to consider the relinquishing of self control to another flawed human individual, and the implications/ramifications that can 'lie' therein.
Good job then the point of NLP is to not relinquish any such thing. You are a nihilist and a pessimist.
Re: Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment
Posted: Mon Mar 05, 2012 9:41 am
by sushil_yadav
Environment has been destroyed primarily by Urban Population......Environment has been destroyed by population that does not produce food.
This planet can only sustain a society in which [almost] the entire population is engaged in producing food......It cannot sustain a society where 50% of world population produces food for 100% of population .......and the remaining 50% is engaged in production and marketing of Consumer Goods and Services.
In Industrial Society a fraction of population produces Food for entire population......The rest of the population [which means most of the people living in Cities and Urban Areas] creates unnecessary work to keep itself occupied.....which leads to Extra destruction of environment......which makes sustainability an impossibility.
One profession means destruction of environment for one thing.......Thousands of professions means destruction of environment for thousands of things.
Animals did not destroy Environment for millions of years.......because their activity was limited to searching for food.
Hunter Gatherer Society did not destroy Environment for a million years.......because their activity was limited to searching for food.
Agrarian Society caused very limited destruction of environment over 10,000 years [compared to Industrial Society].......because their activity was limited to food, clothing and shelter.
Industrial Society has destroyed almost all Environment in just 250 years......because it is destroying environment for thousands of consumer goods and services in addition to food, clothing and shelter.
The list of unnecessary and destructive work in Industrial Society includes......Manufacturing and Marketing of thousands of "Consumer Goods" and Services, Tourism Industry, Entertainment Industry, Sports Industry, Military Industrial Complex, All kinds of unnecessary Research .....and lots of other work.
Out of the population that does not produce Food, the maximum number of people - a few billion people are engaged in Production and Marketing of "Consumer Goods" and Services. Industrial Activity for production of "consumer goods" and services is the biggest destroyer of environment.
Millions of people are working in Sports Industry......Environment is destroyed to manufacture millions of tonnes of Sports Equipment......Millions of Trees have been cut down and billions of acres of fertile soil has been killed with Cement & Concrete to build millions of Stadiums, Golf Courses and other sports facilities.
Millions of people are working in Tourism Industry......Tourism is all about Travelling which promotes Transportation Industry that destroys Environment......Millions of kilometers of Road and Rail network cutting through Forests destroying Trees and Wildlife.....Millions of kilometers of Shipping Lanes torturing and killing Fish.....Millions of kilometers of Air Routes killing the Air with millions of tonnes of exhaust gases.
Millions of people are working in Entertainment Industry........Environment has been destroyed to construct millions of Buildings that are used for entertainment and to produce millions of tonnes of Electronic Equipment that provides entertainment.
Millions of people are working for "Military Industrial Complex" producing and selling billions of tonnes of weapons all over the world...... Environment is destroyed when weapons are produced and when they are used.
Millions of City People are engaged in other unnecessary work that destroys even more environment.
We are approaching Environmental Apocalypse.
Environment has been destroyed by Energy Generation Industry, Mining Industry, Logging Industry, Manufacturing Industry, Construction Industry, Oil Drilling, Oil Refining, Transportation Industry, Millions of kilometers of Rail and Road network, Millions of kilometers of Air Routes and Shipping Lanes.
Industrial Activity has destroyed Forests, Rivers and Oceans....It has produced Trillions of Tonnes of Metal Waste, Plastic Waste, Chemical Waste, Gaseous Waste, eWaste, Nuclear Waste......It has killed billions of acres of fertile soil with cement and concrete.
Industrial Society has destroyed 75 - 90% of Biodiversity and Ecosystems in just 250 years.
Industrial Activity for production of Consumer Goods and Services must stop immediately.........Human work must be limited to Food, Clothing and Shelter.
sushil_yadav
Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment
Re: Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment
Posted: Mon Mar 05, 2012 9:47 am
by sushil_yadav
A pure non-industrial society is not possible now because Industrialization has increased world population to 7 billion.
If we want to save the remaining environment we must minimize the things that destroy environment.
At present we are destroying environment for Food, Clothing, Shelter plus Thousands of Industrial consumer goods and services.
We must eliminate the things that were added last to the list......which means Thousands of consumer goods and services, most of which have existed for only about 100 years out of Hundreds of Thousands of years of Total Human Existence on earth .........these have to be eliminated or minimized.
sushil_yadav
Re: Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment
Posted: Mon Mar 05, 2012 2:42 pm
by bobevenson
You want to turn the world back to the Stone Age? It's never going to happen, my friend.
Re: Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment
Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2012 2:38 pm
by SpheresOfBalance
Arising_uk wrote:SpheresOfBalance wrote:Some people, in an attempt to actualize their selfish desires, bundle them in a package that can easily be sold to the populace.
Some people burble, what are you saying here?
And some only display their ignorance.
It's about the sale of swampland!
peoples love of civilization, is actually the shelter from chaos that it seems to afford; it keeps them alive in an otherwise harsh world. However it is a double edged sword, and I do not except the other cut, such that for me, your point is empty.
What is this "other cut"? You'd prefer others to die?
Did you hear the whistle above your head?
Those fearing the inevitable find refuge in civilization as they accept what they believe is a lessor evil. In this selfish perspective they find their acceptance, despite their trading off others freedoms for theirs, and in the ascent of these stairs of human wreckage, their relative freedom is realized, depending upon the determination in their treading, but in truth they'll never get out of here alive, they just believe that they're somehow staying off the inevitable. It's all just an illusion fueled by the wake of their wreckage, no matter how slightly they wish to perceive it.
You are a nihilist, a pessimist and a fatalist. Its why you dress-up much of your stuff with the 'one love and peace to all' guff. The point of living with others is that one also trades-off ones own selfish freedoms, its called politics.
I'm a realist in my perception, an idealist in my vision, and you're a fool in your naivete!
People only seem to really need people so they can build a skeletal stairway to their own relative private heaven.
And others to support their absolutist dreams.
You need to clear the fog from your vision, assuming you're capable!
Edit: similar sounding word correction.
Re: Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment
Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2012 3:03 pm
by SpheresOfBalance
Arising_uk wrote:SpheresOfBalance wrote:You know Arising_uk, it's funny that we are all victims of programming, and that if you asked most they would either deny it, or if seen and understood, they would be appalled by it, and here we have some people that are brave enough to actually use it in the name of their technique of alteration, at least they're honest.
You have victimhood to much upon the brain. Its just the process of how we think and perceive, no great plot.
When reading me, you must continually hear a whistle! I'm talking of perception, seemingly, your presumption precludes your comprehension.
You know what they say about NLP, right?
Garbage in, garbage out.
Well, actually not specifically NLP, but...
No 'but' about it, this saying is to do with databases
No! Coding computers, period!
but NLP and New Code NLP is just a bunch of techniques from psychotherapy that worked upon the ailing and work even better upon the well when it comes to learning, thoughting, thinking and wanted outcomes.
Which leads one to consider the relinquishing of self control to another flawed human individual, and the implications/ramifications that can 'lie' therein.
Good job then the point of NLP is to not relinquish any such thing. You are a nihilist and a pessimist.
And you, my dear, are a reductionist, post presumption of your parroting, i.e. an ignorant grouper, as well as, I'm sure, a victim of other such rationale limiters; so much, a cookie cutter clone, and just as much a product! How does it feel to be bought and sold?
Re: Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment
Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2012 3:15 pm
by SpheresOfBalance
sushil_yadav wrote:A pure non-industrial society is not possible now because Industrialization has increased world population to 7 billion.
If we want to save the remaining environment we must minimize the things that destroy environment.
At present we are destroying environment for Food, Clothing, Shelter plus Thousands of Industrial consumer goods and services.
We must eliminate the things that were added last to the list......which means Thousands of consumer goods and services, most of which have existed for only about 100 years out of Hundreds of Thousands of years of Total Human Existence on earth .........these have to be eliminated or minimized.
sushil_yadav
I'm not sure where the line should be drawn, but it should be drawn, or the human species be damned, by it's own hand!
If that's not the epitome of stupid, I don't know what is!
The writing's on the wall, only fools look to the horizon, standing on a foundation of wreckage, so they can get a better view.
The solution is not out there, it's in here, out there are only the clues, of what needs to be changed, in here.
Re: Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment
Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2012 6:37 pm
by Arising_uk
SpheresOfBalance wrote:And some only display their ignorance.
It's about the sale of swampland!
Care to elucidate?
Did you hear the whistle above your head?
Nope, care to explain what this other cut is?
I'm a realist in my perception, an idealist in my vision, and you're a fool in your naivete!
You think politics naive?
How do you resolve this contradiction between your realism and idealism?
You need to clear the fog from your vision, assuming you're capable!
So you are not an absolute idealist?
Re: Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment
Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2012 6:42 pm
by Arising_uk
SpheresOfBalance wrote:When reading me, you must continually hear a whistle! I'm talking of perception, seemingly, your presumption precludes your comprehension.
Then we are talking about the same thing, what do you mean by 'perception'?
No! Coding computers, period!
Ah! Things must have changed as I come from the time when programs were paper-run before being input. Couldn't afford to put garbage in.
And you, my dear, are a reductionist, post presumption of your parroting, i.e. an ignorant grouper, as well as, I'm sure, a victim of other such rationale limiters; so much, a cookie cutter clone, and just as much a product! How does it feel to be bought and sold?
No idea? What is it you think I'm a reductionist about?