Philosophy Now Forum

John K wrote:

bobevenson wrote:

John K wrote:At the end of another day, unions can work if they and management bargain in good faith, if not, all bets are off.

Why should management have to bargain at all?

Because no two plumbers are alike. But I'll pay more for better skills.

Right, but if those two plumbers were in a union and worked for the same company, their union would insist that they be paid the same amount of money.

Right, but if those two plumbers were in a union and worked for the same company, their union would insist that they be paid the same amount of money.
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A good excuse for never do more than the other guy.
I however by grace of the designer and self imposed ethics. believe that one should be all one can be.
my code cannot be undermined by complacency theory.

yes when all are of near equal in skill . it works.

I am a league above the norm in skills.
many here are. i am just one.

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When I worked, each day, mentally, physically, & emotionally I pushed myself to the max.


I worked to be the best I could be and I worked to be the best at whatever I was doing.


I worked as a union member...




There was a brotherhood. Those who were still learning you lifted-up. Those who knew more than you-you reached-up to.



I believe in the inherent good of Organized Labor.




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...if YOU are prone to that.


but if YOU are prone to that anything will lead YOU to featherbedding and mediocrity.




Thank you for sharing.



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Featherbedding is a term that had its origin in unions, and all you have to do is look at teachers' unions to understand the mediocrity of American education (no, let's call a spade a spade, the abysmal failure of American education, one of the biggest scams on Earth).

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As I said...if it applies to you...it applies to you.




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bobevenson wrote: Right, but if those two plumbers were in a union and worked for the same company, their union would insist that they be paid the same amount of money.

Then he can leave the union and work for himself. That's the check and balance power he possesses.

interesting thread/posts

If i may ask.. how does one escape the pervasive bureaucracy of the US education system[ as a teacher] and go it alone?
As a private tutor?
In theory why not.?
because one must LOOK the part in such a case. and while i would fit right in in Ex soviet union.
I do not and will not kneel grovel be humble and cut hair and have tats removed for a place at the trough of the blind and stupid .
The all pervasive stupidity of say he;s the guy who fixes your pc. [and has hands on every thing you do ] who cares what he looks like.
But if same guy is to tech your little copies of you then he has to look like your idea of 'swank'
The world is what we make it.
there is no 'thats the way the world works.'

call me Eleanor Arroway and we live in a world where "thats the way the world works"

blind stupidity

John K wrote:

bobevenson wrote: Right, but if those two plumbers were in a union and worked for the same company, their union would insist that they be paid the same amount of money.

Then he can leave the union and work for himself. That's the check and balance power he possesses.

Why should anybody have to join a union in the first place, and why should a company have to deal with one? This is government oppression pure and simple.

bobevenson wrote:

John K wrote:

bobevenson wrote: Right, but if those two plumbers were in a union and worked for the same company, their union would insist that they be paid the same amount of money.

Then he can leave the union and work for himself. That's the check and balance power he possesses.

Why should anybody have to join a union in the first place, and why should a company have to deal with one? This is government oppression pure and simple.

funny.
As a union rep i never had to sign or join a union to be a 'player'.
It was all word to ear.
In 18 months as rep at place i worked the union rang once on phone.
They did not know my name and simply asked. how is it going. i replied So so. to which they hung up. [the phone]

I stood there for 15 minutes asking myself what the f*** i was doing and why the hell had i opened my mouth in 1st place.
this is Darwinian survivalism

Funny thing is at two jobs i applied for. Face to face. they asked about unions. I replied i work you pay. what unions?
I got both those jobs the next day.

In the 80's and 90's in aus work was easy to get. Just be honest and dont BS.
One job i said well i have not run a machine like that. [a multipart system hamilton collation machiine]
[makes things like airline ticked books exct]
But give me a week and ill have it running like a dream. 3 days later they called me up and offered a fat pay packet and a permanent position.
Ater 5 months i was working at 2 am in empty factory ripping out millions of things like the census booklets you get when the govmt wants to do a census.
[what a waste of paper.].
Ill. work 24/7 if you give me double time and a half.
and they did. i was earning what a doctor in trauma dept gets without one scrap of a collage degree.
in fact while machine was running i read SF and took a dump now and then. The best 'super shifts' 18 hours . they got the greek girl in at midnight to do box duty.
deer sweet jesus... I WAS A HAPPY MAN.

skills

Hjarloprillar wrote: Ater 5 months i was working at 2 am in empty factory ripping out millions of things like the census booklets you get when the govmt wants to do a census.[what a waste of paper.]

Rather than waste a lot of paper, the A.C. Nielsen company should do the job using advanced sampling techniques. The same with voting. Under the American Energy Party, people would be doing more productive work.

bobevenson wrote:

John K wrote:

bobevenson wrote: Right, but if those two plumbers were in a union and worked for the same company, their union would insist that they be paid the same amount of money.

Then he can leave the union and work for himself. That's the check and balance power he possesses.

Why should anybody have to join a union in the first place, and why should a company have to deal with one? This is government oppression pure and simple.

They don't. A skilled technician can bargain for himself.

bobevenson wrote:Why should anybody have to join a union?

John K wrote:They don't. A skilled technician can bargain for himself.

My question was, "Why should anybody have to join a union?"