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No, they actually aren't. If time passes, it doesn't mean that time itself changes. It means that things that are decaying have the interval necessary for that process to take place. But it is the things that change; not time.
So, time does not change yet material change is possible!? If time does not change then it means that we are dealing with one point in time. If all events take place at that point then we are dealing with a simultaneous process. There is no change in a simultaneous process. Change exists. Therefore, we are dealing with events at different points of time. But you cannot reach from one point in time to another point if change in time does not exist. Therefore, time changes as well.Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Sat Dec 16, 2023 8:00 pmNo, they actually aren't. If time passes, it doesn't mean that time itself changes. It means that things that are decaying have the interval necessary for that process to take place. But it is the things that change; not time.
Of course materials change. That's the whole point I'm making. Time is not a material entity, of course. If it were, it would have mass, volume, density, etc. It doesn't.bahman wrote: ↑Sat Dec 16, 2023 8:54 pmSo, time does not change yet material change is possible!?Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Sat Dec 16, 2023 8:00 pmNo, they actually aren't. If time passes, it doesn't mean that time itself changes. It means that things that are decaying have the interval necessary for that process to take place. But it is the things that change; not time.
You're making an error of amphiboly here, without realizing you are. (Amphiboly is when you're accidentally using one word to say two different things, and mistaking them for the same thing. It always creates illogic.)If time does not change then it means that we are dealing with one point in time.
So time moves on but it does not change?Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Sat Dec 16, 2023 9:35 pmOf course materials change. That's the whole point I'm making. Time is not a material entity, of course. If it were, it would have mass, volume, density, etc. It doesn't.bahman wrote: ↑Sat Dec 16, 2023 8:54 pmSo, time does not change yet material change is possible!?Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Sat Dec 16, 2023 8:00 pm
No, they actually aren't. If time passes, it doesn't mean that time itself changes. It means that things that are decaying have the interval necessary for that process to take place. But it is the things that change; not time.
You're making an error of amphiboly here, without realizing you are. (Amphiboly is when you're accidentally using one word to say two different things, and mistaking them for the same thing. It always creates illogic.)If time does not change then it means that we are dealing with one point in time.
The word is "change." To say "time changes" is not the same use of "change" as to say "materials change." They don't "change" in the same way at all.
Time "changes" only in terms of the markers we use to indicated it: one o'clock becomes two o'clock, two o'clock becomes three o'clock.... But time is not decaying, or changing from the state of being one thing into another. It remains just time, the thing itself. That's why we use the word "passes," instead of "changes" (though "passes" can also be ampibolized and create nonsense, of course). Time moves on. But it does not, itself, decline or become something else other than what it is.
I already have. Time cannot exist unless an event occurs. Prove otherwise.bahman wrote: ↑Sat Dec 16, 2023 12:28 pmI can prove that time is necessary if change happens. The burden of proof is on you to prove that there is no time if there is no event.attofishpi wrote: ↑Sat Dec 16, 2023 12:19 pmYa, I know, but you haven't answered my question. How does time exist if no events are occurring?
I already said that I can prove the necessity of time when change occurs. You didn't prove that time cannot exist if there is no event.attofishpi wrote: ↑Sat Dec 16, 2023 9:55 pmI already have. Time cannot exist unless an event occurs. Prove otherwise.bahman wrote: ↑Sat Dec 16, 2023 12:28 pmI can prove that time is necessary if change happens. The burden of proof is on you to prove that there is no time if there is no event.attofishpi wrote: ↑Sat Dec 16, 2023 12:19 pm
Ya, I know, but you haven't answered my question. How does time exist if no events are occurring?
Do you by move on mean that time takes different values?Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Sat Dec 16, 2023 9:58 pmIf you want to put it that way, I suppose you could.
"Moves on" is a metaphor that makes one think of position in a space, which isn't right either; but if you understand it merely as a metaphor, that would be okay.
That is the point you fail to understand, time is not of the necessity when it comes to 'change' - change IS of the necessity to ALLOW the concept of TIME.bahman wrote: ↑Sun Dec 17, 2023 1:15 pmI already said that I can prove the necessity of time when change occurs.attofishpi wrote: ↑Sat Dec 16, 2023 9:55 pmI already have. Time cannot exist unless an event occurs. Prove otherwise.
Try try again. Try comprehending the point I am making above and then attempt to prove the contrary to my statement.
What I said. Please read what I said carefully.attofishpi wrote: ↑Sun Dec 17, 2023 1:45 pmThat is the point you fail to understand, time is not of the necessity when it comes to 'change' - change IS of the necessity to ALLOW the concept of TIME.bahman wrote: ↑Sun Dec 17, 2023 1:15 pmI already said that I can prove the necessity of time when change occurs.attofishpi wrote: ↑Sat Dec 16, 2023 9:55 pm I already have. Time cannot exist unless an event occurs. Prove otherwise.
I already said what I can prove. You cannot prove that time does not exist when there is no event.attofishpi wrote: ↑Sun Dec 17, 2023 1:45 pmTry try again. Try comprehending the point I am making above and then attempt to prove the contrary to my statement.
Where is your evidence that TIME can exist when there is NO events?
Of course I can. Time is a measure of events, ergo it requires events.bahman wrote: ↑Sun Dec 17, 2023 2:03 pmWhat I said. Please read what I said carefully.attofishpi wrote: ↑Sun Dec 17, 2023 1:45 pmThat is the point you fail to understand, time is not of the necessity when it comes to 'change' - change IS of the necessity to ALLOW the concept of TIME.
I already said what I can prove. You cannot prove that time does not exist when there is no event.attofishpi wrote: ↑Sun Dec 17, 2023 1:45 pmTry try again. Try comprehending the point I am making above and then attempt to prove the contrary to my statement.
Where is your evidence that TIME can exist when there is NO events?
What do you mean that time is a measure of events?attofishpi wrote: ↑Sun Dec 17, 2023 2:07 pmOf course I can. Time is a measure of events, ergo it requires events.bahman wrote: ↑Sun Dec 17, 2023 2:03 pmWhat I said. Please read what I said carefully.attofishpi wrote: ↑Sun Dec 17, 2023 1:45 pm
That is the point you fail to understand, time is not of the necessity when it comes to 'change' - change IS of the necessity to ALLOW the concept of TIME.
I already said what I can prove. You cannot prove that time does not exist when there is no event.attofishpi wrote: ↑Sun Dec 17, 2023 1:45 pm
Try try again. Try comprehending the point I am making above and then attempt to prove the contrary to my statement.
Where is your evidence that TIME can exist when there is NO events?
What you offer is not an argument.attofishpi wrote: ↑Sun Dec 17, 2023 2:07 pm Now bahman, what is your counter argument? Show us HOW time can exist without any events.
Yer just another SAP that will take this to Nth degree when you know you're beat. If you HONESTLY don't comprehend how time is a measure of events, then you really should not have created a thread about infinite regress of causality.bahman wrote: ↑Sun Dec 17, 2023 2:14 pmWhat do you mean that time is a measure of events?attofishpi wrote: ↑Sun Dec 17, 2023 2:07 pmOf course I can. Time is a measure of events, ergo it requires events.
What you offer is not an argument.attofishpi wrote: ↑Sun Dec 17, 2023 2:07 pm Now bahman, what is your counter argument? Show us HOW time can exist without any events.
What do you mean by time is a measure of events? Please don't evade.attofishpi wrote: ↑Sun Dec 17, 2023 2:20 pmYer just another SAP that will take this to Nth degree when you know you're beat. If you HONESTLY don't comprehend how time is a measure of events, then you really should not have created a thread about infinite regress of causality.bahman wrote: ↑Sun Dec 17, 2023 2:14 pmWhat do you mean that time is a measure of events?attofishpi wrote: ↑Sun Dec 17, 2023 2:07 pm
Of course I can. Time is a measure of events, ergo it requires events.
What you offer is not an argument.attofishpi wrote: ↑Sun Dec 17, 2023 2:07 pm Now bahman, what is your counter argument? Show us HOW time can exist without any events.