Philosophy Now Forum

Wizard22 wrote: ↑Fri May 26, 2023 7:45 am

Sculptor wrote: ↑Thu May 25, 2023 1:02 pmWorst than what?
What is blind faith. It that like wet water?
But yes whenever scientists act like religious people, that is bad.

How about the presumption of Science believing the Big Bang, Atheists following Christian morals and ethics, and allying with Humanity when 'Human' is a generalization stemming from the Abrahamic faiths into "One" common denominator across the entire specie?

Iwannaplato wrote: ↑Fri May 26, 2023 10:48 amThey were ugly. It's that people died while they were demolished, but not that they were demolished. I don't see much gained from trying to demonstrate (to me anyway) that of the two groups of people you consider deluded you admired one more than the other.

Sculptor wrote: ↑Fri May 26, 2023 11:54 amScience does not "believe" in the Big Bang. If you do not understand that then you do not understand science.
Many cosmologies for the appearances of the data and evidence.
As that evidence changes, or grows so too do the theories.
As James Webb provides ever more amazing information.
At the moment some theories are extending and refining the idea of the Big Bang, whilst other theories are suggested.
This is the strength of science.
There is nothing weaker and more idiotic than your absurd Abrahamic POV.

Wizard22 wrote: ↑Fri May 26, 2023 12:17 pm

Sculptor wrote: ↑Fri May 26, 2023 11:54 amScience does not "believe" in the Big Bang. If you do not understand that then you do not understand science.
Many cosmologies for the appearances of the data and evidence.
As that evidence changes, or grows so too do the theories.
As James Webb provides ever more amazing information.
At the moment some theories are extending and refining the idea of the Big Bang, whilst other theories are suggested.
This is the strength of science.
There is nothing weaker and more idiotic than your absurd Abrahamic POV.

They do 'believe' it because anything that cannot be reproduced through experiment, is not Empirical, and therefore not Scientific.

Wizard22 wrote: ↑Wed May 24, 2023 9:27 am Instead of Faith in God, you have Faith in Science.

Instead of The Church, you have The State.

Instead of "Trust the Priest/Rabbi/Imam", you have "Trust the Experts".

Instead of Creationism, you have The Big Bang.

Instead of Fall from Providence, you have Systemic Oppression.

Instead of Manifest Destiny, you have Determinism.

So I have to ask you self-proclaimed "Atheists", "Agnostics", "Secularists", "Humanists", where exactly is your hypothetical Philosophy? Where are you different than those "religious zealots" you presume to be so much better than, superior to? How is your ideology any different, when your self-proclaimed, proud beliefs, are the exact same pattern?

Are you still not a mind-slave of Catholic Rome after 2000 years? Where is your Resistance? Where is your Freedom? Where are your "New" Ideas?

YOU are Abrahamic.

YOU have NO philosophy, no resistance, no original thoughts.

YOU are still Subject to those who have ruled above you for Millenniums now.

YOU have not...freed your mind.

You have never even touched Philosophy once in your short lives. So close...yet so far away.

Sculptor wrote: ↑Fri May 26, 2023 12:29 pmYou are an idiot.

commonsense wrote: ↑Fri May 26, 2023 3:00 pmWizard22:

Thank you for your heartfelt OP. As I understand your argument, you begin by drawing similarities between religion and science. You ask a number of questions, all seeming to require an answer that suggests that atheists (et al) are no different than theists. Next you indicate that you have knowledge of the mental characteristics of the former group.

I beg you to consider that similarities are not the same as equivalencies. Your similes are good, but your argument is weak, and your estimation of atheists seems narrow sighted.

Wizard22 wrote: ↑Wed May 24, 2023 9:27 am So I have to ask you self-proclaimed "Atheists", "Agnostics", "Secularists", "Humanists", where exactly is your hypothetical Philosophy? Where are you different than those "religious zealots" you presume to be so much better than, superior to? How is your ideology any different, when your self-proclaimed, proud beliefs, are the exact same pattern?

Skepdick wrote: ↑Sat May 27, 2023 9:35 amThe difference is that I know it's all just a theory - a social construct. Which is precisely why I believe in the "myth" of creation.

I choose to believe. They believe without choosing it.

Wizard22 wrote: ↑Sat May 27, 2023 9:13 am

commonsense wrote: ↑Fri May 26, 2023 3:00 pmWizard22:

I beg you to consider that similarities are not the same as equivalencies. Your similes are good, but your argument is weak, and your estimation of atheists seems narrow sighted.

I used to believe the same as you.

But then I grew up, matured, and saw that the pattern of belief is the same between Secularists and Abrahamists. Same ideology, same ideas, same beliefs, but using different words, different terms, different authors, different sources.

commonsense wrote: ↑Sat May 27, 2023 2:53 pm

Wizard22 wrote: ↑Sat May 27, 2023 9:13 am

commonsense wrote: ↑Fri May 26, 2023 3:00 pmWizard22:

I beg you to consider that similarities are not the same as equivalencies. Your similes are good, but your argument is weak, and your estimation of atheists seems narrow sighted.

I used to believe the same as you.

But then I grew up, matured, and saw that the pattern of belief is the same between Secularists and Abrahamists. Same ideology, same ideas, same beliefs, but using different words, different terms, different authors, different sources.

What continues to trouble me is the tenet that God is the same thing that science is, that the Church is identical to the State, that clergymen are the same as science experts, and so on.

Similar, yes. But identical they are not. The comparisons are not as strong as you propose.

Age wrote: ↑Sat May 27, 2023 3:12 pmBut, HAVING A BELIEF of some 'thing' can be the EXACT SAME. For example, A BELIEF that 'Everything' came FROM some 'god' or FROM some 'bang' can be IDENTICAL. The "believers" all 'trying to' "justify" 'their position/BELIEF. One is just called 'religious' while the other is just called 'science', but BOTH are based on ASSUMPTIONS or GUESSES, ONLY, while each CLAIMING that 'their views, positions, or BELIEFS are MORE CORRECT because 'they each' FOLLOW 'the literature, AND 'the experts'.

commonsense wrote: ↑Sat May 27, 2023 2:53 pmWhat continues to trouble me is the tenet that God is the same thing that science is, that the Church is identical to the State, that clergymen are the same as science experts, and so on.

Similar, yes. But identical they are not. The comparisons are not as strong as you propose.

Wizard22 wrote: ↑Sun May 28, 2023 3:45 am

Age wrote: ↑Sat May 27, 2023 3:12 pmBut, HAVING A BELIEF of some 'thing' can be the EXACT SAME. For example, A BELIEF that 'Everything' came FROM some 'god' or FROM some 'bang' can be IDENTICAL. The "believers" all 'trying to' "justify" 'their position/BELIEF. One is just called 'religious' while the other is just called 'science', but BOTH are based on ASSUMPTIONS or GUESSES, ONLY, while each CLAIMING that 'their views, positions, or BELIEFS are MORE CORRECT because 'they each' FOLLOW 'the literature, AND 'the experts'.

commonsense wrote: ↑Sat May 27, 2023 2:53 pmWhat continues to trouble me is the tenet that God is the same thing that science is, that the Church is identical to the State, that clergymen are the same as science experts, and so on.

Similar, yes. But identical they are not. The comparisons are not as strong as you propose.

Age gets the point I'm making, commonsense.

I think you're mistaking different intentions. Two people can hold the same Belief (Creationism) with different intent, which produces vastly different rationalizations (Abrahamic v Secular).

commonsense wrote: ↑Sun May 28, 2023 12:11 pmYou both are conflating similarity with equality. Atheists do not believe in creationism by any intent whatsoever.