Philosophy Now Forum

Will Bouwman wrote: ↑Mon May 22, 2023 8:46 am

Skepdick wrote: ↑Mon May 22, 2023 6:51 amSo if I asked you whether Descartes existed before he started thinking your'd answer me with "there is data" ?

No. If Descartes did anything, he had to exist in order to do so. The point Descartes was making would be that 'Descartes existed and thought', is not the only possible explanation for the data you have relating to Descartes having existed and thought. Try substituting Descartes with Jesus.

attofishpi wrote: ↑Mon May 22, 2023 8:42 am

Skepdick wrote: ↑Mon May 22, 2023 8:39 am

Will Bouwman wrote: ↑Mon May 22, 2023 8:35 am Is lying wrong?

Isn't it?

Are you having a midlife crisis Skeppy?

Skepdick wrote: ↑Mon May 22, 2023 8:51 am

attofishpi wrote: ↑Mon May 22, 2023 8:42 am

Skepdick wrote: ↑Mon May 22, 2023 8:39 am
Isn't it?

Are you having a midlife crisis Skeppy?

I am way too young for that.

If this is mid-life it's quite depressing.

attofishpi wrote: ↑Mon May 22, 2023 8:53 am All you need to do is multiply your current age by 2...that will give you the age at which you won't feel depressed ever again (indeed you won't feel anything, again, ever - unless Jesus is your man ).

Skepdick wrote: ↑Mon May 22, 2023 8:56 am

attofishpi wrote: ↑Mon May 22, 2023 8:53 am All you need to do is multiply your current age by 2...that will give you the age at which you won't feel depressed ever again (indeed you won't feel anything, again, ever - unless Jesus is your man ).

That's only true if I am at my mid-life point.

Like I said - if that's true, it's definitely a depressing thought.

attofishpi wrote: ↑Mon May 22, 2023 8:59 am ..well, I'm sorry to tell you, but Jesus just told me you are indeed at precisely the half-way point.

Skepdick wrote: ↑Mon May 22, 2023 9:01 am

attofishpi wrote: ↑Mon May 22, 2023 8:59 am ..well, I'm sorry to tell you, but Jesus just told me you are indeed at precisely the half-way point.

Oh great! So I am over the hill now. By a margin of a few seconds.

attofishpi wrote: ↑Mon May 22, 2023 9:07 am

Skepdick wrote: ↑Mon May 22, 2023 9:01 am

attofishpi wrote: ↑Mon May 22, 2023 8:59 am ..well, I'm sorry to tell you, but Jesus just told me you are indeed at precisely the half-way point.

Oh great! So I am over the hill now. By a margin of a few seconds.

Minutes my good man, minutes.

Skepdick wrote: ↑Mon May 22, 2023 8:48 am

Will Bouwman wrote: ↑Mon May 22, 2023 8:46 am

Skepdick wrote: ↑Mon May 22, 2023 6:51 amSo if I asked you whether Descartes existed before he started thinking your'd answer me with "there is data" ?

No. If Descartes did anything, he had to exist in order to do so. The point Descartes was making would be that 'Descartes existed and thought', is not the only possible explanation for the data you have relating to Descartes having existed and thought. Try substituting Descartes with Jesus.

Way to miss the point.

The only thing I am pointing at here is the order of events. What goes on the left of the "therefore" and what goes on the right.

Hypothesis 1: Think therefore exist

OR

Hypothesis 2: Exist therefore think.

It looks to me that you've chosen 2 already, but I don't want to put any more words in your mouth. You seem to have so many of those already.

Will Bouwman wrote: ↑Mon May 22, 2023 8:46 amIf Descartes did anything, he had to exist in order to do so.

Will Bouwman wrote: ↑Mon May 22, 2023 9:09 am

Skepdick wrote: ↑Mon May 22, 2023 8:48 am

Will Bouwman wrote: ↑Mon May 22, 2023 8:46 am No. If Descartes did anything, he had to exist in order to do so. The point Descartes was making would be that 'Descartes existed and thought', is not the only possible explanation for the data you have relating to Descartes having existed and thought. Try substituting Descartes with Jesus.

Way to miss the point.

The only thing I am pointing at here is the order of events. What goes on the left of the "therefore" and what goes on the right.

Hypothesis 1: Think therefore exist

OR

Hypothesis 2: Exist therefore think.

It looks to me that you've chosen 2 already, but I don't want to put any more words in your mouth. You seem to have so many of those already.

I'll say it again:

Will Bouwman wrote: ↑Mon May 22, 2023 8:46 amIf Descartes did anything, he had to exist in order to do so.

It is trivially true that for a person to think, that person must exist. The point you apparently miss is that 'Descartes existed and then thought', is not the only possible explanation for the data you have relating to Descartes having existed and then thought.

attofishpi wrote: ↑Mon May 22, 2023 9:11 am So.

Philosophy can barely get to objective truth.

That doesn't mean that philosophy, which actually is language structured in logical pursuit of truth, UNDERMINES truth.

Skepdick wrote: ↑Mon May 22, 2023 9:12 am

attofishpi wrote: ↑Mon May 22, 2023 9:11 am So.

Philosophy can barely get to objective truth.

That doesn't mean that philosophy, which actually is language structured in logical pursuit of truth, UNDERMINES truth.

Is objective truth better than vanilla truth?