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Re: What is the real color of the apple?
Posted: Mon May 16, 2022 4:39 pm
by henry quirk
good on you...
Re: What is the real color of the apple?
Posted: Mon May 16, 2022 4:42 pm
by Skepdick
Good on me, indeed.
But when will you stop pretending you have principles?
Re: What is the real color of the apple?
Posted: Mon May 16, 2022 4:52 pm
by henry quirk
Skepdick wrote: ↑Mon May 16, 2022 4:42 pm
Good on me, indeed.
But when will you stop pretending you have principles?
Re: What is the real color of the apple?
Posted: Tue May 17, 2022 5:09 pm
by CHNOPS
Skepdick wrote: ↑Mon May 16, 2022 4:12 pm
CHNOPS wrote: ↑Mon May 16, 2022 4:04 pm
So you dont understand the first part where you say "Yes".
"Red" is what happen when a brain is conected to an object, whatever a brain or an object is.
Without that relation, the arent "Red" things.
"Red" is what happens when you encode/represent your experiences in language.
The experience of this color is not "red". The experience of this color occurs outside of any linguistic representation.
Of course.
Language is just a representation of a experience with other experience. So, the word "red" is not the red.
I know that. We are going deeper than that.
Forgive the language.
Now... that image you upload here, a red dot, is still the same if there are not brains?
Red is what happens when fotons interact with a brain.
Is the fotons interacts with another object, then other experience is ocurring but not the "red experience" we know.
Re: What is the real color of the apple?
Posted: Tue May 17, 2022 5:16 pm
by CHNOPS
bahman wrote: ↑Mon May 16, 2022 4:26 pm
CHNOPS wrote: ↑Mon May 16, 2022 4:04 pm
bahman wrote: ↑Sun May 15, 2022 2:01 pm
Yes.
No. Apple just seems red.
So you dont understand the first part where you say "Yes".
"Red" is what happen when a brain is conected to an object, whatever a brain or an object is.
Without that relation, the arent "Red" things.
The brain doesn't directly connect with other objects.
It conect with other object throught photons, for example.
If you take off the photons or the brain, there are no experience of seeing red.
What experience are then? well, if you close your eyes, the difference between what we call "an image of a red dot" and "an image of a yellow dot" it will be on "colder or hotter", for example.
And if you take off the entire human body, then, we can describe it, but there is still beeing a experience.
How is the experience of the origin of the universe, for example? We cant describe it in terms of humans.
You cant say it was "hot and white".
Phisics says it was "hot", but they mean "a lot of energy" or "a lot of movement". But that are imposible to describe, because we only describe in human terms.
Re: What is the real color of the apple?
Posted: Tue May 17, 2022 5:30 pm
by Skepdick
CHNOPS wrote: ↑Tue May 17, 2022 5:09 pm
So, the word "red" is not the red.
So why do you keep calling it red when it isn't red.
Re: What is the real color of the apple?
Posted: Tue May 17, 2022 9:34 pm
by bahman
CHNOPS wrote: ↑Tue May 17, 2022 5:16 pm
bahman wrote: ↑Mon May 16, 2022 4:26 pm
CHNOPS wrote: ↑Mon May 16, 2022 4:04 pm
So you dont understand the first part where you say "Yes".
"Red" is what happen when a brain is conected to an object, whatever a brain or an object is.
Without that relation, the arent "Red" things.
The brain doesn't directly connect with other objects.
It conect with other object throught photons, for example.
If you take off the photons or the brain, there are no experience of seeing red.
What experience are then? well, if you close your eyes, the difference between what we call "an image of a red dot" and "an image of a yellow dot" it will be on "colder or hotter", for example.
And if you take off the entire human body, then, we can describe it, but there is still beeing a experience.
How is the experience of the origin of the universe, for example? We cant describe it in terms of humans.
You cant say it was "hot and white".
Phisics says it was "hot", but they mean "a lot of energy" or "a lot of movement". But that are imposible to describe, because we only describe in human terms.
And how do photons manifest themselves as color?
Re: What is the real color of the apple?
Posted: Wed May 18, 2022 7:30 pm
by promethean75
This is a racist question. Why must an apple be identified by the color of its skin? Why can't we just call it a fruit like all the other ones? Okay, maybe the apple is a dumb ugly lazy rotten violence prone underachiever that refuses to keep a job... but is this because of the apple's skin color?
Re: What is the real color of the apple?
Posted: Wed May 18, 2022 7:36 pm
by henry quirk
Why can't we just call it a fruit like all the other ones?
homophobe
Re: What is the real color of the apple?
Posted: Wed May 18, 2022 7:47 pm
by promethean75
"homophobe"
Virtue signaler
Re: What is the real color of the apple?
Posted: Wed May 18, 2022 8:14 pm
by henry quirk
HA!
Hoisted on my own spear...
Re: What is the real color of the apple?
Posted: Wed May 25, 2022 1:45 am
by CHNOPS
Skepdick wrote: ↑Tue May 17, 2022 5:30 pm
CHNOPS wrote: ↑Tue May 17, 2022 5:09 pm
So, the word "red" is not the red.
So why do you keep calling it red when it isn't red.
Because we shared commons experience, almost equals, so, when I say "red" you know what experience i am talking about.
The "red experience" is real. Is just RELATIVE to a brain, like mine or yours.
The experience is always real. You are experience it.
That doesnt mean to be that because that then the color is something you can isolate from brains.
Re: What is the real color of the apple?
Posted: Wed May 25, 2022 1:47 am
by CHNOPS
And how do photons manifest themselves as color?
When there are brains..... when interact with your eyes and then your brain.
The photons dont carry the color "red", they dont have colors. When they hit your brain, that moment of the hit... is when an experience ocurrs and we call it "seeing red".
Re: What is the real color of the apple?
Posted: Wed May 25, 2022 10:34 am
by Skepdick
CHNOPS wrote: ↑Wed May 25, 2022 1:47 am
And how do photons manifest themselves as color?
When there are brains..... when interact with your eyes and then your brain.
The photons dont carry the color "red", they dont have colors. When they hit your brain, that moment of the hit... is when an experience ocurrs and we call it "seeing red".
Oh, ok. So photons hit your brain makes red. Then what do you need eyes for?
And why did all these stupid animals evolve bright colors to mean "danger" if everybody experiences color differently?
Re: What is the real color of the apple?
Posted: Wed May 25, 2022 1:50 pm
by bahman
CHNOPS wrote: ↑Wed May 25, 2022 1:47 am
And how do photons manifest themselves as color?
When there are brains..... when interact with your eyes and then your brain.
The photons dont carry the color "red", they dont have colors. When they hit your brain, that moment of the hit... is when an experience ocurrs and we call it "seeing red".
How do you know that photon is not qualia?
