Philosophy Now Forum

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Thu Jul 08, 2021 7:27 am “ A theologian is like a blind man in a dark room searching for a black cat which isn't there - and finding it! “ - unknown



“Since no one really knows anything about God, those who think they do are just troublemakers” Rabia Al-Basri



“Religion is man-made. Even the men who made it cannot agree on what their prophets or redeemers or gurus actually said or did “


“ I don't see any god up here” Yuri Gagarin - first man in space, while in space.

“The invisible and the non- existent look very much alike”


“I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do because I notice it always coincides with their own desires” Susan B. Anthony

Eskimo:"If I did not know about God and sin, would I go to hell?" Priest: "No, not if you did not know." Eskimo: "Then why did you tell me?"

The Eskimo is right on point.

Dubious wrote: ↑Sat Jul 10, 2021 12:52 am

Age wrote: ↑Fri Jul 09, 2021 11:52 pm

Dubious wrote: ↑Fri Jul 09, 2021 11:04 pm The universe couldn't care less what's good or bad. Whether Hitler, Jesus, Genghis Khan or Saint Francis is a matter of total indifference to it. They are all null entities to whom no value has been added or subtracted. Sentience proceeds from there to determine its own values and theories of good & evil based on a secular or theistic approach, the two never being wholly separated since they both strive to create moral systems which partitions the indifference of the cosmos into a viable and necessary value system. They amount to nothing more than our own commentaries on the matter. The problem with the theistic approach, it hardly ever changes once established in a universe where change and everything in it is the rule.

Could this be because what is written in religious texts is far closer to already established universal facts, or truths, but WHY those writings do not appear to be relative to universal "laws or rules" is just because of the way 'you', human beings, KEEP MISINTERPRETING those writings?

OBVIOUSLY, BOTH 'you', so called, "theists" AND "atheists", in the days when this was being written, had NOT YET worked out what thee ACTUAL Truth IS. So, could this just be because of what has been ALREADY been CLEARLY WRITTEN in religious texts has just been MISINTERPRETED, and the MISINTERPRETATIONS are just continually being passed on down through the centuries and the ages, hitherto when these words were being written?

Or, do BOTH of 'you' ACTUALLY BELIEVE that 'you' are NOT MISINTERPRETING ANY thing here? And that what 'you' EACH individually BELIEVE and SAY is the RIGHT INTERPRETATION and thus is thee ACTUAL Truth of things? Because if 'you' do, then watching and OBSERVING all of this unfold is even NOW MORE HUMOROUS and MORE ENTERTAINING than it has been previously.

Enlighten us! What is the ACTUAL Truth and how is it clearly written in religious texts??

Enlighten 'you' to what the ACTUAL Truth of 'what', EXACTLY?

Also, I asked you some CLARIFYING QUESTIONS, which you did NOT ANSWER.

Dubious wrote: ↑Sat Jul 10, 2021 12:52 am In short, describe your hermeneutic version on the subject.

What does 'hermeneutic' mean or refer to, to you?

What 'subject' are you referring to, EXACTLY?

And, by the way, I use a heuristic approach.

jayjacobus wrote: ↑Sat Jul 10, 2021 2:26 am

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Thu Jul 08, 2021 7:27 am Eskimo:"If I did not know about God and sin, would I go to hell?" Priest: "No, not if you did not know." Eskimo: "Then why did you tell me?"

The Eskimo is right on point.

Priest: "So that you may go to heaven."

Eskimo missed the point.

Walker wrote: ↑Sat Jul 10, 2021 3:53 am

jayjacobus wrote: ↑Sat Jul 10, 2021 2:26 am

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Thu Jul 08, 2021 7:27 am Eskimo:"If I did not know about God and sin, would I go to hell?" Priest: "No, not if you did not know." Eskimo: "Then why did you tell me?"

The Eskimo is right on point.

Priest: "So that you may go to heaven."

Eskimo missed the point.

Is that supposed to have a point?

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Fri Jul 09, 2021 11:43 pm

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Fri Jul 09, 2021 7:12 pm Nothing is ever good if bad can happen to it.

Well, in the ideal, I agree. Good things should last.

But even the things that fade, get hurt, get stained or decay, or even die can be good.

You know that if you've ever owned a dog.

Oh well, life is just amazing then isn't it, it's all so good because I have a dog.

No, mannie, just no, this is a weak argument for good. Your barking up the wrong tree again.

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Fri Jul 09, 2021 4:54 pm Consciousness can never experience itself as an object...aka a concept known.

Age wrote: ↑Fri Jul 09, 2021 11:38 pm But It/I ALREADY HAVE.

Even 'you' just expressed that KNOWN CONCEPT here. You did this when 'you' used the word, also known as 'concept known', and said: 'Consciousness'.

See, what 'you' are ACTUALLY DOING throughout this forum is DOING what you say CAN NOT BE DONE. That is; you are using ACTUAL words to describe and thus express the VERY 'things', which you say can NOT be described NOR expressed in and with words.

There is no thing that is expressing as and through a word. A word is no thing, appearing as though it is a thing. But no thing is actually appearing, sound cannot be seen, it's just noise, even though noise is heard, it's quite meaningless because it doesn't actually exist as a solid thing in and of itself, it's another mirage.

Consciousness cannot experience itself as the object, because objects are not conscious, Only consciousness is conscious. And consciousness cannot know itself because it is the knowing that cannot be known. Consciousness is not an object, an object is concept known by no thing, aka consciousness.

There is no thing doing anything at all on this forum. That's all that's happening, no thing is happening.

An object can be seen, but what is seeing an object cannot be seen. Therefore, the seen object is no thing other than an image of the imageless. An illusion.

Dubious wrote: ↑Fri Jul 09, 2021 11:04 pm The universe couldn't care less what's good or bad.

That's because the universe hasn't got a mind. The mind is just something humans made up via evolutions capacity to evolve a speaking animal. Language is no thing other than just pure emptiness at it's core. It has about as much sigificance, substance or meaning as does the sound coming from a barking dog, or the chirping of the bird.

Dubious wrote: ↑Fri Jul 09, 2021 11:04 pm Whether Hitler, Jesus, Genghis Khan or Saint Francis is a matter of total indifference to it. They are all null entities to whom no value has been added or subtracted. Sentience proceeds from there to determine its own values and theories of good & evil based on a secular or theistic approach, the two never being wholly separated since they both strive to create moral systems which partitions the indifference of the cosmos into a viable and necessary value system. They amount to nothing more than our own commentaries on the matter. The problem with the theistic approach, it hardly ever changes once established in a universe where change and everything in it is the rule.

The human being is addicted to it's story, without which it is nothing, it's the most deluded species on the planet. It cannot deal with nothing, which animals are having to do all the time. Which makes dogs smarter than gods.

Because of language, empty awareness became aware of it's own imageless image.Imagination created a self portrait, and that was the begining of evil and trouble and chaos, in essence, langauge, aka nothing, no thing somehow magically turned itself into a God. . resulting in a misery that has ruled the lives of the speaking animal ever since.

Humans believe they have a mind, which has resulted in them living quiet lives of desperation and torment, but they will never admit or accept this to themselves, until they do, and when they do, they are finally free of their man-made delusions and mental afflictions.

The problem is, they are in love their insanity, and this love is their drug, a drug that just keeps on desiring to make more of itself through mindless process of procreation, which only serves to make them more insane, and suffer more. It never occurs to them they can just quit their addiction, any time they want.

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Sat Jul 10, 2021 6:32 am

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Fri Jul 09, 2021 4:54 pm Consciousness can never experience itself as an object...aka a concept known.

Age wrote: ↑Fri Jul 09, 2021 11:38 pm But It/I ALREADY HAVE.

Even 'you' just expressed that KNOWN CONCEPT here. You did this when 'you' used the word, also known as 'concept known', and said: 'Consciousness'.

See, what 'you' are ACTUALLY DOING throughout this forum is DOING what you say CAN NOT BE DONE. That is; you are using ACTUAL words to describe and thus express the VERY 'things', which you say can NOT be described NOR expressed in and with words.

There is no thing that is expressing as and through a word. A word is no thing, appearing as though it is a thing. But no thing is actually appearing, sound cannot be seen, it's just noise, even though noise is heard, it's quite meaningless because it doesn't actually exist as a solid thing in and of itself, it's another mirage.

Consciousness cannot experience itself as the object, because objects are not conscious, Only consciousness is conscious. And consciousness cannot know itself because it is the knowing that cannot be known. Consciousness is not an object, an object is concept known by no thing, aka consciousness.

There is no thing doing anything at all on this forum. That's all that's happening, no thing is happening.

An object can be seen, but what is seeing an object cannot be seen. Therefore, the seen object is no thing other than an image of the imageless. An illusion.

If you say so.

But, is there ANY actual thing, which 'you' appear SO DESPERATELY wanting to share with 'us', that actually has ANY importance at all here?

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Sat Jul 10, 2021 7:28 am

Dubious wrote: ↑Fri Jul 09, 2021 11:04 pm The universe couldn't care less what's good or bad.

That's because the universe hasn't got a mind. The mind is just something humans made up via evolutions capacity to evolve a speaking animal. Language is no thing other than just pure emptiness at it's core. It has about as much sigificance, substance or meaning as does the sound coming from a barking dog, or the chirping of the bird.

Dubious wrote: ↑Fri Jul 09, 2021 11:04 pm Whether Hitler, Jesus, Genghis Khan or Saint Francis is a matter of total indifference to it. They are all null entities to whom no value has been added or subtracted. Sentience proceeds from there to determine its own values and theories of good & evil based on a secular or theistic approach, the two never being wholly separated since they both strive to create moral systems which partitions the indifference of the cosmos into a viable and necessary value system. They amount to nothing more than our own commentaries on the matter. The problem with the theistic approach, it hardly ever changes once established in a universe where change and everything in it is the rule.

The human being is addicted to it's story, without which it is nothing, it's the most deluded species on the planet.

So, what you are actually and essentially telling 'us' here is that 'you', "dontaskme";

Are addicted to your own story, which I TOTALLY AGREE WITH.

That 'you' are NOTHING without your own story, which, in a sense, I TOTALLY AGREE WITH. And,

'you' are one of the most deluded of ALL things on this planet, which, again, I TOTALLY AGREE WITH, WHOLEHEARTEDLY.

This also means that the 'your' own story here, which you are saying is just a DELUSION and has just about NOTHING whatsoever to do with Reality, and Existence, Itself, correct?

Or, is your own, addicted to, story "dontaskme" NOT a delusion?

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Sat Jul 10, 2021 7:28 am It cannot deal with nothing, which animals are having to do all the time. Which makes dogs smarter than gods.

Because of language, empty awareness became aware of it's own imageless image.Imagination created a self portrait, and that was the begining of evil and trouble and chaos, in essence, langauge, aka nothing, no thing somehow magically turned itself into a God. . resulting in a misery that has ruled the lives of the speaking animal ever since.

Do you KNOW WHY 'you' see your own personal existence in ALL "others", and then project your own, addicted to, story onto "others", when OBVIOUSLY what 'you' ASSUME and/or BELIEVE here is NOT the SAME for EVERY one else?

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Sat Jul 10, 2021 7:28 am Humans believe they have a mind, which has resulted in them living quiet lives of desperation and torment, but they will never admit or accept this to themselves, until they do, and when they do, they are finally free of their man-made delusions and mental afflictions.

Are 'you' FREE from your own made up delusions, and your own mental afflictions?

And, are you SURE?

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Sat Jul 10, 2021 7:28 am The problem is, they are in love their insanity, and this love is their drug, a drug that just keeps on desiring to make more of itself through mindless process of procreation, which only serves to make them more insane, and suffer more.

Here is ANOTHER EXAMPLE of one projecting their own 'self', onto "others".

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Sat Jul 10, 2021 7:28 am It never occurs to them they can just quit their addiction, any time they want.

But here 'you' are, telling the same, addicted and delusion, story over and over again.

Again, WHY?

Is there ANY actual importance in your story, which could be of benefit to ANY one "else"?

If yes, then 'what', EXACTLY?

Walker wrote: ↑Sat Jul 10, 2021 3:53 am

jayjacobus wrote: ↑Sat Jul 10, 2021 2:26 am

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Thu Jul 08, 2021 7:27 am Eskimo:"If I did not know about God and sin, would I go to hell?" Priest: "No, not if you did not know." Eskimo: "Then why did you tell me?"

The Eskimo is right on point.

Priest: "So that you may go to heaven."

Eskimo missed the point.

You don’t go to heaven or hell…contrary to what the religious kooks say.

You are Heaven and Hell. You are never not in heaven which is hell.

Hell is the absence of heaven, and heaven can only be possible because of hell. They are conjoined twins.

AGE wrote:

But here 'you' are, telling the same, addicted and delusion, story over and over again.

Again, WHY?

Why ..because my dad bored his way into my mothers vagina and the result was that I showed up.

This madhouse will only stop when men stop boring their dicks into women’s bodies.

They can’t seem to stop because they are addicted to pleasure which is just another form of pain and suffering that they seem hopelessly addicted to.

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Thu Jul 08, 2021 3:30 pm

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Thu Jul 08, 2021 7:27 am Religion is man-made.

Yes, a "religion" is man-made. That's definitional.

And I can't fault you if you say yours is. You're probably telling the truth.

But that's what's not "man-made": the truth.

So the real question is "Is anything the truth?" -- even if the truth turns out to reflect something others may choose to call "religious."

I agree and your comment has more substance than lists of sound bites. It can't be denied another's perspective is part of absolute truth. The perspective of a subject of experience is unique, as is the perspective of any conscious being.

Dontaskme wrote:

You can only know your own truth, and not speak on behalf of another’s truth. It’s meaningless to say there is a truth that lies beyond human understanding because you would have to know that is true, and that’s the rub, insofar as knowledge. There is no truth or knowledge of anything outside of knowledge itself which is a human attribute

.

You can know details of another's truth, and social scientists, poets, playwrites, and novelists often have great insight into others' perspectives. However you can't know the other's perspective as a whole pattern, which cannot be shared with any other man or animal.

I disagree that "It’s meaningless to say there is a truth that lies beyond human understanding " . On the contrary it is meaningless to claim any is a subject of their own experience without comparing "own experience" with absolute mind.

________________________

Again I agree with Immanuel Can "...experience, not language, is primary."
Dontaskme replied to IC: "Well if you want to be really finicky over this, then it's consciousness that is primary, not experience. Experience is an appearance within consciousness, experience is not consciousness itself."

I disagree with Dontaskme. There is no such thing as consciousness itself, except in a clinical sense. Experience is consciousness.In other words, there is no DAM upon whom experiences are engraved. On the contrary, DAM is experience: without experience DAM would be a robot.

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Sat Jul 10, 2021 10:16 am

AGE wrote:

But here 'you' are, telling the same, addicted and delusion, story over and over again.

Again, WHY?

Why ..because my dad bored his way into my mothers vagina and the result was that I showed up.

A human baby was born because of that deed done by your mother AND father.

You explained WHY a human baby was born. You did NOT answer the ACTUAL CLARIFYING QUESTION I posed to you.

WHY do 'you', the one known as "dontaskme", here in this forum, tell the same, addicted and delusion, story over and over again, here, in this forum?

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Sat Jul 10, 2021 10:16 am This madhouse will only stop when men stop boring their dicks into women’s bodies.

And it could be argued that if women stopped wanting dicks bored into their vaginas, and stopped wanting babies, then 'you', human beings, will stop being born. But this is just getting COMPLETELY OFF TRACK here.

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Sat Jul 10, 2021 10:16 am They can’t seem to stop because they are addicted to pleasure which is just another form of pain and suffering that they seem hopelessly addicted to.

But WHY 'you', human beings, do things like stick things into your vaginas or stick your dicks into holes for pleasure is because 'you' ALL want to reduce the pain 'you' currently feel, from NOT getting what it is that 'you' ALL want, and need.

BUT, this is just a DETRACTION and a DEFLECTION from the ACTUAL question I posed to 'you', "dontaskme".

You OBVIOUSLY tell your OWN story, over and over again. Do you KNOW WHY you do this? And, is there is ANY actual importance for ANY one for you to keep TELLING this same old story of YOURS?

I think Age wrote the following:

To me,

The 'human' word in 'human being' refers to the physical body part, which is visible to the physical eye/s.

The 'being' word in 'human being' refers to the thinking, feeling part, which is invisible to the physical eye/s. This part also goes by and is known by the words 'person', or 'personality'.

For further defining, the word 'person' refers to the thoughts and emotions only, within the body. This is because there is NO person who is more, NOR less, than ANY other 'person'. ALL people are EQUAL in that they are ALL the EXACT SAME thing, that is; just the thoughts and emotions within the body, but ALL people are also DIFFERENT in that they are ALL just made up of different thoughts.

In relation to some religious ideas/beliefs, the word 'soul' refers to this thinking, feeling, and invisible, part of the human being, which lasts forever. In that the whatever thoughts (the person/soul) that were in a physical (human) body leave, or have, an ever-lasting effect on the 'rest'.

I think Age wrote the above which was in a post from Dontaskme.The format was unclear.

Anyway.
Can the individual's thoughts, emotions, and 'soul' "last forever" during a time when the material body does not exist? If that is the case, how might the material body for one thing, and the thoughts, emotions, and 'soul' for another thing cling together during the natural lifespan?