Philosophy Now Forum

bahman wrote: ↑Fri Mar 12, 2021 7:30 pm There is no benefit in surviving physical death. We just cannot escape it though. The reality is as it is.

This lacks the nuance of time.

If you could choose your time of death would you choose to die sooner, or die later?

Not quite. The mind is the subjective aspect of a thing that is both subjective and objective. The thing is the brain-mind.

Mental /subjective experience. Physical/objective experience.

Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Sat Mar 13, 2021 9:20 am

bahman wrote: ↑Fri Mar 12, 2021 7:30 pm There is no benefit in surviving physical death. We just cannot escape it though. The reality is as it is.

Since it is inevitable and there are no benefits why worry with the future, in this case the idea is false anyway.

However for the majority, especially theists, there are psychological benefits in clinging on the to idea of surviving physical death even it is not provable and false.
You are not aware, but you also attempting to sustain consonance from cognitive dissonance with such a false belief.

Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Fri Mar 12, 2021 6:45 am I'll reply the same, the main reason why you are insisting in such a definition of the self as a soul that can survive physical death [a falsehood] is purely as a consonance to resolve an existential cognitive dissonance.
You get a sense of psychological comfort and equanimity by clinging to such a definition.
Trying to give up this definition will trigger terrible psychological pains and unease.
Agree?

What pain?

Not obvious physical pains, but subliminal pains.

Note for theists, the idea of a soul that survives physical death will suppress terrible subliminal pains from an existential cognitive dissonance.
If this idea is threatened, they will feel very uneasy and their inherent defense mechanisms will be triggered to defend that idea [illusory].

It is very common those who threaten such false ideas of eternal life are killed or subject to terrible evil acts.
Declaring Allah* do not exists in a city square in Afghanistan is very likely to get one killed by a mob of fundamentalist Muslims.
* an Allah who guaranteed their soul that survives physical death will be taken to paradise with a bonus of 72 virgins.
In the past non-Christians who threatened the ideas of eternal life of Christians were burned on stakes by paranoid Christians.

No, I am not biased by my instinct to believe that I will survive death. I have an argument for that.

Skepdick wrote: ↑Sat Mar 13, 2021 11:35 am

bahman wrote: ↑Fri Mar 12, 2021 7:30 pm There is no benefit in surviving physical death. We just cannot escape it though. The reality is as it is.

This lacks the nuance of time.

If you could choose your time of death would you choose to die sooner, or die later?

It doesn't matter to me. Wherever I go here I am. The stuff I experience changes though if I die.

bahman wrote: ↑Sat Mar 13, 2021 10:55 pm

Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Sat Mar 13, 2021 9:20 am

bahman wrote: ↑Fri Mar 12, 2021 7:30 pm There is no benefit in surviving physical death. We just cannot escape it though. The reality is as it is.

Since it is inevitable and there are no benefits why worry with the future, in this case the idea is false anyway.

However for the majority, especially theists, there are psychological benefits in clinging on the to idea of surviving physical death even it is not provable and false.
You are not aware, but you also attempting to sustain consonance from cognitive dissonance with such a false belief.

What pain?

Not obvious physical pains, but subliminal pains.

Note for theists, the idea of a soul that survives physical death will suppress terrible subliminal pains from an existential cognitive dissonance.
If this idea is threatened, they will feel very uneasy and their inherent defense mechanisms will be triggered to defend that idea [illusory].

It is very common those who threaten such false ideas of eternal life are killed or subject to terrible evil acts.
Declaring Allah* do not exists in a city square in Afghanistan is very likely to get one killed by a mob of fundamentalist Muslims.
* an Allah who guaranteed their soul that survives physical death will be taken to paradise with a bonus of 72 virgins.
In the past non-Christians who threatened the ideas of eternal life of Christians were burned on stakes by paranoid Christians.

No, I am not biased by my instinct to believe that I will survive death. I have an argument for that.

Arguments alone on speculations are not realistic.

Proof??
Show verified and justified [empirically and philosophically] evidences anyone has survive confirmed physical death.

[quote="Veritas Aequitas" post_id=502052 time=1615693045 user_id=7896]
[quote=bahman post_id=502030 time=1615672538 user_id=12593]
[quote="Veritas Aequitas" post_id=501951 time=1615623608 user_id=7896]

Since it is inevitable and there are no benefits why worry with the future, in this case the idea is false anyway.

However for the majority, especially theists, there are psychological benefits in clinging on the to idea of surviving physical death even it is not provable and false.
You are not aware, but you also attempting to sustain consonance from cognitive dissonance with such a false belief.


Not obvious physical pains, but subliminal pains.

Note for theists, the idea of a soul that survives physical death will suppress terrible subliminal pains from an existential cognitive dissonance.
If this idea is threatened, they will feel very uneasy and their inherent defense mechanisms will be triggered to defend that idea [illusory].

It is very common those who threaten such false ideas of eternal life are killed or subject to terrible evil acts.
Declaring Allah* do not exists in a city square in Afghanistan is very likely to get one killed by a mob of fundamentalist Muslims.
* an Allah who guaranteed their soul that survives physical death will be taken to paradise with a bonus of 72 virgins.
In the past non-Christians who threatened the ideas of eternal life of Christians were burned on stakes by paranoid Christians.
[/quote]
No, I am not biased by my instinct to believe that I will survive death. I have an argument for that.
[/quote]
Arguments alone on speculations are not realistic.

Proof??
Show verified and justified [empirically and philosophically] evidences anyone has survive confirmed physical death.
[/quote]

If there's anything else, you're not dead yet.

Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Thu Mar 11, 2021 6:37 am

Eodnhoj7 wrote: ↑Wed Mar 10, 2021 10:45 pm

Advocate wrote: ↑Wed Mar 10, 2021 5:34 pm

Mind is an emergent understanding. The brain came first, just like the first chicken came out of the last pre-chicken egg.

In the question which came first the chicken or the egg, the chicken came with the egg inside of it. The same metaphor applies to the mind/brain understanding, both came simultaneously given the brain is a pattern.

The question of which comes first is purely a psychological issue of cognitive dissonance.

The focus should be on the empirically verifiable and justifiable 'egg' and 'chicken' so that we can rear the chicken, collect the eggs and eat them to survive.

No it is a succession of causes.

Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Sun Mar 14, 2021 4:37 am

bahman wrote: ↑Sat Mar 13, 2021 10:55 pm

Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Sat Mar 13, 2021 9:20 am
Since it is inevitable and there are no benefits why worry with the future, in this case the idea is false anyway.

However for the majority, especially theists, there are psychological benefits in clinging on the to idea of surviving physical death even it is not provable and false.
You are not aware, but you also attempting to sustain consonance from cognitive dissonance with such a false belief.


Not obvious physical pains, but subliminal pains.

Note for theists, the idea of a soul that survives physical death will suppress terrible subliminal pains from an existential cognitive dissonance.
If this idea is threatened, they will feel very uneasy and their inherent defense mechanisms will be triggered to defend that idea [illusory].

It is very common those who threaten such false ideas of eternal life are killed or subject to terrible evil acts.
Declaring Allah* do not exists in a city square in Afghanistan is very likely to get one killed by a mob of fundamentalist Muslims.
* an Allah who guaranteed their soul that survives physical death will be taken to paradise with a bonus of 72 virgins.
In the past non-Christians who threatened the ideas of eternal life of Christians were burned on stakes by paranoid Christians.

No, I am not biased by my instinct to believe that I will survive death. I have an argument for that.

Arguments alone on speculations are not realistic.

Proof??
Show verified and justified [empirically and philosophically] evidences anyone has survive confirmed physical death.

Near death experiences.

Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Sun Mar 14, 2021 4:37 am

bahman wrote: ↑Sat Mar 13, 2021 10:55 pm

Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Sat Mar 13, 2021 9:20 am
Since it is inevitable and there are no benefits why worry with the future, in this case the idea is false anyway.

However for the majority, especially theists, there are psychological benefits in clinging on the to idea of surviving physical death even it is not provable and false.
You are not aware, but you also attempting to sustain consonance from cognitive dissonance with such a false belief.


Not obvious physical pains, but subliminal pains.

Note for theists, the idea of a soul that survives physical death will suppress terrible subliminal pains from an existential cognitive dissonance.
If this idea is threatened, they will feel very uneasy and their inherent defense mechanisms will be triggered to defend that idea [illusory].

It is very common those who threaten such false ideas of eternal life are killed or subject to terrible evil acts.
Declaring Allah* do not exists in a city square in Afghanistan is very likely to get one killed by a mob of fundamentalist Muslims.
* an Allah who guaranteed their soul that survives physical death will be taken to paradise with a bonus of 72 virgins.
In the past non-Christians who threatened the ideas of eternal life of Christians were burned on stakes by paranoid Christians.

No, I am not biased by my instinct to believe that I will survive death. I have an argument for that.

Arguments alone on speculations are not realistic.

Proof??
Show verified and justified [empirically and philosophically] evidences anyone has survive confirmed physical death.

I have proof for it.

bahman wrote: ↑Mon Mar 15, 2021 8:55 pm I have proof for it.

I don't want proof. I want evidence.

Skepdick wrote: ↑Mon Mar 15, 2021 9:27 pm

bahman wrote: ↑Mon Mar 15, 2021 8:55 pm I have proof for it.

I don't want proof. I want evidence.

Then you either need to have contact with the deads or wait to die.

[quote=bahman post_id=502579 time=1615840859 user_id=12593]
[quote=Skepdick post_id=502578 time=1615840047 user_id=17350]
[quote=bahman post_id=502577 time=1615838136 user_id=12593]
I have proof for it.
[/quote]
I don't want proof. I want evidence.
[/quote]
Then you either need to have contact with the deads or wait to die.
[/quote]

YRU wasting pixels on this crap emoji?

Advocate wrote: ↑Mon Mar 15, 2021 9:51 pm

bahman wrote: ↑Mon Mar 15, 2021 9:40 pm

Skepdick wrote: ↑Mon Mar 15, 2021 9:27 pm I don't want proof. I want evidence.

Then you either need to have contact with the deads or wait to die.

YRU wasting pixels on this crap emoji?

I have contact with my father and many others. They are in me and sometimes outside me.

[quote=bahman post_id=502583 time=1615842247 user_id=12593]
[quote=Advocate post_id=502581 time=1615841505 user_id=15238]
[quote=bahman post_id=502579 time=1615840859 user_id=12593]

Then you either need to have contact with the deads or wait to die.
[/quote]

YRU wasting pixels on this crap emoji?
[/quote]
I have contact with my father and many others. They are in me and sometimes outside me.
[/quote]

No they're not. You're epistemologically ill. Also you should bloody well know better by now. How old are you anyway?

Advocate wrote: ↑Mon Mar 15, 2021 10:20 pm

bahman wrote: ↑Mon Mar 15, 2021 10:04 pm

Advocate wrote: ↑Mon Mar 15, 2021 9:51 pm YRU wasting pixels on this crap emoji?

I have contact with my father and many others. They are in me and sometimes outside me.

No they're not.

They are. I investigated them carefully. They talk to me and their behaviors are coherent. Like me and you.

Advocate wrote: ↑Mon Mar 15, 2021 9:51 pm You're epistemologically ill.

I am not. I am very healthy right now.

Advocate wrote: ↑Mon Mar 15, 2021 9:51 pm Also you should bloody well know better by now. How old are you anyway?

53.