Philosophy Now Forum

Skepdick wrote: ↑Wed Jan 27, 2021 8:59 pm

bahman wrote: ↑Wed Jan 27, 2021 8:57 pm I don't think so since the fetus and mother are just different persons.

How do you plan on preventing black market abortions?

Advocate wrote: ↑Wed Jan 27, 2021 9:02 pm

bahman wrote: ↑Wed Jan 27, 2021 9:01 pm

Skepdick wrote: ↑Wed Jan 27, 2021 8:54 pm So give it your thoroughest thought and let us know: How do we decide who gets to decide?

The wisest. The one who has the answer to the most of questions.

You called?

bahman wrote: ↑Wed Jan 27, 2021 8:57 pm

Terrapin Station wrote: ↑Wed Jan 27, 2021 8:52 pm

bahman wrote: ↑Wed Jan 27, 2021 8:51 pm
The question is whether the fetus is a person. It is to me.

I'm fine considering the fetus a person. Fetuses are persons that mothers should be allowed to legally kill while the fetus is wholly contained inside them.

I don't think so since the fetus and mother are just different persons.

Terrapin Station wrote: ↑Wed Jan 27, 2021 9:19 pm

bahman wrote: ↑Wed Jan 27, 2021 8:57 pm

Terrapin Station wrote: ↑Wed Jan 27, 2021 8:52 pm
I'm fine considering the fetus a person. Fetuses are persons that mothers should be allowed to legally kill while the fetus is wholly contained inside them.

I don't think so since the fetus and mother are just different persons.

For any person wholly contained inside another person, I'd give the "container" person legal permission to terminate the life of the "containee" person.

bahman wrote: ↑Wed Jan 27, 2021 9:20 pm

Terrapin Station wrote: ↑Wed Jan 27, 2021 9:19 pm

bahman wrote: ↑Wed Jan 27, 2021 8:57 pm
I don't think so since the fetus and mother are just different persons.

For any person wholly contained inside another person, I'd give the "container" person legal permission to terminate the life of the "containee" person.

You are not making any sense. Container. How does it follow that she has the right?

Terrapin Station wrote: ↑Wed Jan 27, 2021 9:23 pm

bahman wrote: ↑Wed Jan 27, 2021 9:20 pm

Terrapin Station wrote: ↑Wed Jan 27, 2021 9:19 pm

For any person wholly contained inside another person, I'd give the "container" person legal permission to terminate the life of the "containee" person.

You are not making any sense. Container. How does it follow that she has the right?

Rights are something we bestow per our dispositions. We can give anyone the right to do whatever we'd like. It just depends on what we like.

bahman wrote: ↑Wed Jan 27, 2021 9:03 pm Education.

bahman wrote: ↑Wed Jan 27, 2021 9:42 pm

Terrapin Station wrote: ↑Wed Jan 27, 2021 9:23 pm

bahman wrote: ↑Wed Jan 27, 2021 9:20 pm
You are not making any sense. Container. How does it follow that she has the right?

Rights are something we bestow per our dispositions. We can give anyone the right to do whatever we'd like. It just depends on what we like.

And that is not correct. Life is precious. There are logical answers and good solution for any situation including abortion.

Terrapin Station wrote: ↑Wed Jan 27, 2021 9:55 pm Morality doesn't stem from logic. It stems from dispositions we have built into our brains. There's no way to arrive at a foundational moral stance via logic.

Skepdick wrote: ↑Wed Jan 27, 2021 9:53 pm

bahman wrote: ↑Wed Jan 27, 2021 9:03 pm Education.

Educated people are even gooder at gaming the rules.

Terrapin Station wrote: ↑Wed Jan 27, 2021 9:55 pm

bahman wrote: ↑Wed Jan 27, 2021 9:42 pm

Terrapin Station wrote: ↑Wed Jan 27, 2021 9:23 pm

Rights are something we bestow per our dispositions. We can give anyone the right to do whatever we'd like. It just depends on what we like.

And that is not correct. Life is precious. There are logical answers and good solution for any situation including abortion.

If it's not correct, you'd need to show evidence of rights being anything else.

"Life is precious" is an opinion that an individual would have (or not have as the case may be), and just how that's manifest, the exact conditions of it, etc. will vary from individual to individual where they have an opinion in that vein.

Morality doesn't stem from logic. It stems from dispositions we have built into our brains. There's no way to arrive at a foundational moral stance via logic.

bahman wrote: ↑Wed Jan 27, 2021 10:13 pm

Terrapin Station wrote: ↑Wed Jan 27, 2021 9:55 pm

bahman wrote: ↑Wed Jan 27, 2021 9:42 pm
And that is not correct. Life is precious. There are logical answers and good solution for any situation including abortion.

If it's not correct, you'd need to show evidence of rights being anything else.

"Life is precious" is an opinion that an individual would have (or not have as the case may be), and just how that's manifest, the exact conditions of it, etc. will vary from individual to individual where they have an opinion in that vein.

Morality doesn't stem from logic. It stems from dispositions we have built into our brains. There's no way to arrive at a foundational moral stance via logic.

How about the fact that we are minds so we should have equal opportunity when it comes to life.

Terrapin Station wrote: ↑Wed Jan 27, 2021 11:00 pm

bahman wrote: ↑Wed Jan 27, 2021 10:13 pm

Terrapin Station wrote: ↑Wed Jan 27, 2021 9:55 pm
If it's not correct, you'd need to show evidence of rights being anything else.

"Life is precious" is an opinion that an individual would have (or not have as the case may be), and just how that's manifest, the exact conditions of it, etc. will vary from individual to individual where they have an opinion in that vein.

Morality doesn't stem from logic. It stems from dispositions we have built into our brains. There's no way to arrive at a foundational moral stance via logic.

How about the fact that we are minds so we should have equal opportunity when it comes to life.

I'd say we have minds, or minds are part of what we are.

At any rate, how do you believe that "we should have equal opportunity when it comes to life" follows from a fact such as "we are minds"? That seems like a complete non-sequitur to me. And why that non-sequitur rather than "We are minds, so we should not have equal opportunity when it comes to life"?

bahman wrote: ↑Wed Jan 27, 2021 11:21 pm

Terrapin Station wrote: ↑Wed Jan 27, 2021 11:00 pm

bahman wrote: ↑Wed Jan 27, 2021 10:13 pm
How about the fact that we are minds so we should have equal opportunity when it comes to life.

I'd say we have minds, or minds are part of what we are.

At any rate, how do you believe that "we should have equal opportunity when it comes to life" follows from a fact such as "we are minds"? That seems like a complete non-sequitur to me. And why that non-sequitur rather than "We are minds, so we should not have equal opportunity when it comes to life"?

The fact that we are made of minds and bodies and given different lives because we have different fates. Life is a matter of fate, who are your parents, how do you decide, etc. Minds are similar though. So they deserver equity.