Philosophy Now Forum

Skepdick wrote: ↑Sun Oct 18, 2020 6:47 pm

henry quirk wrote: ↑Sun Oct 18, 2020 6:38 pm nope...that was your example, not mine...I used it for illustration, not cuz I feel contracted socially

So you don't respect other people's personhood and you don't expect other people to respect yours?

You don't think you have any natural rights that need to be captured in writing to avoid future disputes?

I respect persons and their natural right cuz I'm a natural rights libertarian (a placeholder for a particular kind of moral realism)

you wanna see that as a social contract, have at it

I don't

the only codifications worth a hill of beans to me...

*the individual contracts I enter into, that I have a hand in

*a man belongs to himself and what directly extends out of that

again: you wanna see these as social contracts, have at it

I don't

as for what I expect from others: damned little

Because, personally, I don't remember entering into any contract with you, so I don't see why you expect me or anybody to " lick your commie keister" when it comes to your "personhood".

agreed

come ahead, then

henry quirk wrote: ↑Sun Oct 18, 2020 6:56 pm Because, personally, I don't remember entering into any contract with you, so I don't see why you expect me or anybody to " lick your commie keister" when it comes to your "personhood".

agreed

come ahead, then

come ahead meanin' come to me and let's see how it plays out

henry quirk wrote: ↑Sun Oct 18, 2020 6:54 pm I respect persons and their natural right cuz I'm a natural rights libertarian (a placeholder for a particular kind of moral realism)

OK.Is dignity a natural right? Is undignified treatment of humans immoral?

henry quirk wrote: ↑Sun Oct 18, 2020 6:54 pm you wanna see that as a social contract, have at it

I don't

Does the phrase "social contract" upset you? OK... lets speak of "natural rights" instead of "social contracts" then...

henry quirk wrote: ↑Sun Oct 18, 2020 6:54 pm a man belongs to himself and what directly extends out of that

Dignity directly extends out of that.

Suppose that your rights are natural. AM I obliged to recognize them? If depriving you of your natural rights is not a breach of contract, what would you call it then?

Immoral? I can live with that label. Can you?

henry quirk wrote: ↑Sun Oct 18, 2020 6:56 pm Because, personally, I don't remember entering into any contract with you, so I don't see why you expect me or anybody to " lick your commie keister" when it comes to your "personhood".

agreed

come ahead, then

So is that you entering into a voluntary contract where you've given me permission to deprive you of your personhood?

henry quirk wrote: ↑Sun Oct 18, 2020 6:59 pm come ahead meanin' come to me and let's see how it plays out

I acknowledge your permission.

Skepdick wrote: ↑Sun Oct 18, 2020 7:02 pm

henry quirk wrote: ↑Sun Oct 18, 2020 6:56 pm Because, personally, I don't remember entering into any contract with you, so I don't see why you expect me or anybody to " lick your commie keister" when it comes to your "personhood".

agreed

come ahead, then

So is that you entering into a voluntary contract where you've given me permission to deprive you of your personhood?

you were, and are, always free to try

no contract required

henry quirk wrote: ↑Sun Oct 18, 2020 7:04 pm you were, and are, always free to try

no contract required

The contract is only for when you go back on your word....

That is. If you do a U-turn and retaliate against me (after having given me approval), my lawyers will have a field day.

OK.Is dignity a natural right? Is undignified treatment of humans immoral?

define dignity


Does the phrase "social contract" upset you?

nope...it's just bullshit I ain't wastin' my time on


OK... lets speak of "natural rights" instead of "social contracts" then..

my thoughts on the subject are all over the forum

go find 'em

right now: I have no interest in replicatin' that here for you


Suppose that your rights are natural. AM I obliged to recognize them? If depriving you of your natural rights is not a breach of contract, what would you call it then?

if you abide your conscience you will recognize 'em; if you don't, we'll see what happens

I call it suicide for you; self-defense for me

Skepdick wrote: ↑Sun Oct 18, 2020 7:05 pm

henry quirk wrote: ↑Sun Oct 18, 2020 7:04 pm you were, and are, always free to try

no contract required

The contract is only for when you go back on your word....

That is. If you do a U-turn and retaliate against me (after having given me approval), my lawyers will have a field day.

I never gave you my word on diddly

you wanna give it a go, you will

quit bullshittin'...as my grandpop used to say: shit or get off the pot

I ain't Mannie...he'll dance with you for pages

me: I'm about done with you

henry quirk wrote: ↑Sun Oct 18, 2020 7:16 pm OK.Is dignity a natural right? Is undignified treatment of humans immoral?

define dignity

Well, that's an interesting request.

Have you noticed how the first chapter of most contracts contain "definitions".

You don't happen to have definitions for "ownership" and "personhood" anywhere, perhaps. Do you?

henry quirk wrote: ↑Sun Oct 18, 2020 7:16 pm nope...it's just bullshit I ain't wastin' my time on

But you do want definitions. Yes?

henry quirk wrote: ↑Sun Oct 18, 2020 7:16 pm OK... lets speak of "natural rights" instead of "social contracts" then..

my thoughts on the subject are all over the forum

go find 'em

right now: I have no interest in replicatin' that here for you

I am well aware. Which is precisely why I am speaking of "natural rights" and not of "social contracts" (but really, they are the same thing).

And so, you insist that a "person owns themselves", but I guess - society en masse is not contractually obliged to recognise this right.

henry quirk wrote: ↑Sun Oct 18, 2020 7:16 pm if you abide your conscience you will recognize 'em; if you don't, we'll see what happens.

So how is this any different to me saying "If you abide by your conscience you'll recognize other people's dignity - if you don't, we'll see what happens..."

henry quirk wrote: ↑Sun Oct 18, 2020 7:16 pm I call it suicide for you; self-defense for me

We've had this dick-swinging contest before. You are older than me and you have zero training. The odds aren't in your favour.

Not that I'd ever duel with you, when I could just send the long arm of the law to deal with you.

You don't happen to have definitions for "ownership" and "personhood" anywhere, perhaps. Do you?

defined, by me, for me, in various places in-forum

go find 'em if you like

how about that definition for dignity?


But you do want definitions. Yes?

just dignity


I am well aware. Which is precisely why I am speaking of "natural rights" and not of "social contracts" (but really, they are the same thing).

nope


We've had this dick-swinging contest before. You are older than me and you have zero training. The odds aren't in your favour.

yes, we have...you've made the threats, I've responded in kind...same as it always was

I'm older, yes

you have no idea about what I have or haven't been trained in

don't care about the odds: come ahead


In a society without laws the strong and the many rule.

kinda like a society with laws, yeah?

-----

I could just send the long arm of the law to deal with you.

pussy move

henry quirk wrote: ↑Sun Oct 18, 2020 7:30 pm defined, by me, for me, in various places in-forum

So it's not encoded in a social contract of any sort? No law? No constitution?

Why then do you expect other people to "recognise" it?

henry quirk wrote: ↑Sun Oct 18, 2020 7:30 pm how about that definition for dignity?

Defined in various constitutions.

Go find them if you like.

henry quirk wrote: ↑Sun Oct 18, 2020 7:30 pm kinda like a society with laws, yeah?

Exactly like that. When you ignore the whole notion of "accountability".

henry quirk wrote: ↑Sun Oct 18, 2020 7:30 pm I could just send the long arm of the law to deal with you.

pussy move

Brains over brawn.

even

Skepdick wrote: ↑Sun Oct 18, 2020 4:47 pm

SteveKlinko wrote: ↑Sun Oct 18, 2020 4:34 pm You first.

You want me to derail your thread by coming up with a definition for a word I don't even use?

What kind of bullshit is this? But you know what.... lets see where your stupid leads.

Here's an experiment design.

Members of the public are put in a shoot/no-shoot training scenario where people of different races jump out holding either cellphones (no threat)
or a gun (threat). The experiment participant then makes the shoot/no-shoot decision and the "correctness" of the decision is recorded.

All errors (which in a real-world scenario would closely represent corpses) are to be counted.

If we were to count all the errors, and it turns out that black suspects were being accidentally shot
more than non-black suspects, would you accept this as proof of an underlying bias?

They have in fact done such experiments. I have seen results of such experiments on TV news segments. No bias was seen and in fact the Police are actually less likely to shoot Blacks because of all the hysteria about that.

A tweet from LeBron James after a Police shooting incident:
We’re literally hunted EVERYDAY/EVERYTIME we step foot outside the comfort of our homes!

He tweeted this Sewage out to the World including millions of young Black fans who probably believe everything he says. This is irresponsibility at the highest levels. He should be indicted for gross negligence in the education of millions of young Black (and White) fans. I remember this tweet being discussed on one of the Liberal Networks with the bobble headed commentators shaking their heads in tacit agreement with the tweet. Nobody even tried to confront the accusation in the LeBron James tweet.

This is what I am talking about. The total commitment of Liberal/Media/Politicians to push Conspiracy Theories of Police Racism has got to be the crime of the Century. This crime is being perpetrated on the Black communities across the nation and it has got to be called out and stopped. The Liberal/Media/Politicians are literally killing Black people with this kind of Paranoia. Getting Black votes is not worth this kind of Thought Corruption of a whole group of Americans. More and more Black people are waking up to what the Liberal/Media/Politicians are doing.