Philosophy Now Forum

commonsense wrote: ↑Sun Jun 07, 2020 11:56 pm

Age wrote: ↑Sun Jun 07, 2020 11:46 pm

commonsense wrote: ↑Sun Jun 07, 2020 4:41 pm I’ll restate my position:

Whether born with it or acquired, whether followed, lost or ignored, conscience guides human action by anticipation or application of shame, and the depraved either don’t have one or don’t listen to it.

I view this a little bit differently. To me, Conscience Itself does not do the shaming. Conscience just directs, dictates, tells us, or guides us to what is right and what is wrong in Life. If a person feels shame, then that is another matter, which is just the result of their emotions. The purpose of 'emotions' is to feel, internally. Some people have learned to ignore or block their emotions, without necessarily ignoring or blocking Conscience Itself.

To me, the purpose of;

'Conscience', is to tell, instruct, and/or show what are the right things in Life from the wrong things in Life, unemotionally, unreservedly, unbiased, unabated, and unabashedly.

'Emotion', is to feel, internally, about things.

'Thought', is just what we individual think about things.

'Knowing', is just 'that' what we can ALL agree on and accept.

Well put.

Thank you.

gaffo wrote: ↑Sat Jun 06, 2020 8:20 pm

Belinda wrote: ↑Wed Jun 03, 2020 7:07 pm The touchstone for moral behaviour is freedom.

fully disagree.


Freedom is worth nothing without Responsibility tied to it.

without the latter you have Freedom, like 1917 Russia, 2018 ISIS, etc............anarchy - ya each as the freedom to do stuff - including raping pilaging/etc.

great.

Belinda wrote: ↑Wed Jun 03, 2020 7:07 pm For instance if children are not educated they are less free when they are adults as they are either ill-equipped to make choices or they have fewer choices than their better informed contemporaries. Ill-educated adults will be unable to assess which political leaders are sane and which are insane.

again, disagee fully.


give me any uneducated farmer from any century - over the book learn nuclear physict Edward Teller (ya sure lets use fussion bombs to make the panama canal.

book smart dolts line the streets! and they could not pick a "sane candidate" if their life depended upon it!

why, because that is required is Wisdome! not Education.

there are trillions of educated dolts all over the place!!!!!!!!!!!! fuck! just look at US and UK - Trump and Boris! - no need to say more.

Wisdom is the fix for electing same candidates - and guess what, wisdom is not related to education - in ANY way! - so the number of foolish uneducated farmers = the number of foolish Nuclear Scientists (ed Tellers).

give me a wise uneducated farmer to choose my leader, over an educated fool!

everytime! (and yes i am educated)

Gaffo, unlike you I don't conflate education and duration of schooling.

Belinda wrote: ↑Mon Jun 08, 2020 9:16 am

gaffo wrote: ↑Sat Jun 06, 2020 8:20 pm

Belinda wrote: ↑Wed Jun 03, 2020 7:07 pm The touchstone for moral behaviour is freedom.

fully disagree.


Freedom is worth nothing without Responsibility tied to it.

without the latter you have Freedom, like 1917 Russia, 2018 ISIS, etc............anarchy - ya each as the freedom to do stuff - including raping pilaging/etc.

great.

Belinda wrote: ↑Wed Jun 03, 2020 7:07 pm For instance if children are not educated they are less free when they are adults as they are either ill-equipped to make choices or they have fewer choices than their better informed contemporaries. Ill-educated adults will be unable to assess which political leaders are sane and which are insane.

again, disagee fully.


give me any uneducated farmer from any century - over the book learn nuclear physict Edward Teller (ya sure lets use fussion bombs to make the panama canal.

book smart dolts line the streets! and they could not pick a "sane candidate" if their life depended upon it!

why, because that is required is Wisdome! not Education.

there are trillions of educated dolts all over the place!!!!!!!!!!!! fuck! just look at US and UK - Trump and Boris! - no need to say more.

Wisdom is the fix for electing same candidates - and guess what, wisdom is not related to education - in ANY way! - so the number of foolish uneducated farmers = the number of foolish Nuclear Scientists (ed Tellers).

give me a wise uneducated farmer to choose my leader, over an educated fool!

everytime! (and yes i am educated)

Gaffo, unlike you I don't conflate education and duration of schooling.

ok, welcome clarification of your views on these two.

- lower case g BTW, thanks.

been "gaffo" for 18 yrs now on the interweb-s/usenet-s

never been "Gaffo"....though it is (as you prob figured) an abbreviation of my Surname

gaffo wrote: ↑Sun Jun 14, 2020 12:45 am

Belinda wrote: ↑Mon Jun 08, 2020 9:16 am

gaffo wrote: ↑Sat Jun 06, 2020 8:20 pm

fully disagree.


Freedom is worth nothing without Responsibility tied to it.

without the latter you have Freedom, like 1917 Russia, 2018 ISIS, etc............anarchy - ya each as the freedom to do stuff - including raping pilaging/etc.

great.




again, disagee fully.


give me any uneducated farmer from any century - over the book learn nuclear physict Edward Teller (ya sure lets use fussion bombs to make the panama canal.

book smart dolts line the streets! and they could not pick a "sane candidate" if their life depended upon it!

why, because that is required is Wisdome! not Education.

there are trillions of educated dolts all over the place!!!!!!!!!!!! fuck! just look at US and UK - Trump and Boris! - no need to say more.

Wisdom is the fix for electing same candidates - and guess what, wisdom is not related to education - in ANY way! - so the number of foolish uneducated farmers = the number of foolish Nuclear Scientists (ed Tellers).

give me a wise uneducated farmer to choose my leader, over an educated fool!

everytime! (and yes i am educated)

Gaffo, unlike you I don't conflate education and duration of schooling.

ok, welcome clarification of your views on these two.

- lower case g BTW, thanks.

been "gaffo" for 18 yrs now on the interweb-s/usenet-s

never been "Gaffo"....though it is (as you prob figured) an abbreviation of my Surname

Sorry gaffo, I'll remember that.

The difference between education and indoctrination relates to the proportion of
child centred: other centred.

I value individuals' freedoms so I favour individuals' freedoms as the touchstone of education. Skills training is not included in the relationship.

Belinda wrote: ↑Sun Jun 14, 2020 11:53 am

gaffo wrote: ↑Sun Jun 14, 2020 12:45 am

Belinda wrote: ↑Mon Jun 08, 2020 9:16 am
Gaffo, unlike you I don't conflate education and duration of schooling.

ok, welcome clarification of your views on these two.

- lower case g BTW, thanks.

been "gaffo" for 18 yrs now on the interweb-s/usenet-s

never been "Gaffo"....though it is (as you prob figured) an abbreviation of my Surname

Sorry gaffo, I'll remember that.

The difference between education and indoctrination relates to the proportion of
child centred: other centred.

I value individuals' freedoms so I favour individuals' freedoms as the touchstone of education. Skills training is not included in the relationship.

Thanks for rely. I too value the individual/individualism - i did not know you did, do you? not sure where you reside, but asking, are you a Liberarian? in mindset? I am fully per Civics/ACLU/Culture - but on opposite side per economics (I affirm regulation - an unregulated economy always results in monopolies - bad IMO).

In effect i am a 70's democrat, that party left me with Clinton (pro free market) - and later that same party by 2005 affirm tribalism (Political correctness) - and turned its back on the "melting pot" ideal that that party affirmed in the 70's (a society that saw character only - not race or ethnicity - of folks).

never sided with Republicans - they are mostly either - freemarket Corporatist/"Libertarian" economically, and socially thuggish "christians" (white southern Baptists), wishing to make a Religious State out of America.

i'm laughing my ass off that Gorsich (and per me - Courtwise - i'm moderate, i believe both Textural and Living docutment vias have a place) - I think Gorsich rulled honestly per his views of texturalism (so not hypocrite) - and on this one case I agree with his ruling, i noted why he ruled the way he did and agree with it.

all the while the Evangelicals that cried about the Supreme Courts prior Liberal Judges ruling via the "living document" philosphy - got their "original texturist" Jurist (stolen from Garland - BTW - IMO) - who they championed.........................until he used his "textural" philospophy honestly, and happened to be the opposite of what they wanted.

"conservative Christian Tears" - full the tears to the brime snowflake hypocrites!!!!!!!!!!!!!! -mmmmm nice tear tea if i do say so.

------------

I await those same snowflake hypocrites now championing nominating Liberal Judges next!!!!!!!!!(hell - it might be possible for a Liberal - living document justice to rule against Trans folks (you never know - if the legal arguement is sound)) - Christian hypocrites! they never gave a shit about "Texturalism", only wanted any Justice to side on thier side!! - all these last 40 fking years!!!!! - their hysteria only shows their hyopcrisy.

Hell, it would be ironic if Garland (the man that should have been appointed to the SC - in a Nation that actually affirmed the Rule of Law) being on the court, would have ruled on the side of Thomas, Alito, and Kanvanh......the ruling of course would be the same - but 5 to 4 instead of the 6 to 3.

I'd like to thank John Robert too BTW, he started out too Right per myself back when appointed 15 yrs ago, but has since moved to the center - and yes i am a Moderate generally (i'm a little left of - but still in the middle), I'm starting to like Roberts more and more since about 7 yrs ago.

Scalia was the worst of the worst IMO, Alito was a close second (Citizens United) Robert sided with Alito here - and will be remembered forever in siding on the wrong side of right.

Gorsich and Kavanah have not been there long enough for me to get a valid picture so far.

I do thank the former in his ruling in this instance however. solid reasoning per his legal philosophy.

gaffo, I'm Scottish and live in England. I support Labour and Amnesty International.