Göbekli Tepe

[Atla]

Very good, you pass with distinction

Pass what?

What a fine pawn

[Atla]

YES, I understand this COMPLETELY, and that is why I do not like to assume any thing and I NEVER believe any thing.

Now, you claim that this is "utterly wrong", therefore you MUST HAVE some sort of evidence and/or proof for this.

Will you provide that proof and evidence? Or, just once again, is the truthfulness and righteousness of what you say based again sorry on your already held beliefs and assumptions ONLY?

Not even close to understanding what I write.

So, I copy the words that you write, and then you say that is not even close to understanding what you write. Okay, Misunderstood.

You didn't copy and you didn't understand (and you're not understanding this sentence either).

[Arising_uk]

What a fine pawn

Another delusional loon.

[Atla]

What a fine pawn

Another delusional loon.

Yess use the power of projection

[Arising_uk]

Yess use the power of projection

I'd say that this was the "first age" of humanity.

Later, humanity was thrown back again in the great civilizational collapse of 1200-1150 BC, the Bronze Age civilizations were actually surprisingly advanced, and some of them probably ocean-faring, most of that was forgotten or intentionally erased from history. ...

Tell it to the Chinese.

Given that there were ocean-faring peoples 50,000 years ago could you answer Age's aptly pointed-out questions, "What do you mean by "First Age" of humanity and how are you defining 'humanity' here?"

So I'd say we are in the "third age" of humanity now. Even if some of the above is inaccurate or wrong, we have still much to learn about our past. ...

We do but we won't learn it from interweeble guesswork.

What went on in the minds of the first humans, 12000 years ago? This was probably long before any kind of dualistic thinking was invented, but even taking that into account, it still all seems so alien. ...

Take a look at the megaliths we build nowadays and have a rough guess as to why they built them.

"dualistic thinking" - loon.

the Indus Valley civ, personally I think that the Egyptians made contact with them around 2650 BC when they sent out expeditions; they are that extremely advanced civ that taught Egyptians so much, and this also explains how they could have gone from build crappy little pyramids to building the Great pyramids in just few decades.

Try over 100 years and note that what they built later was pretty much what they built earlier from an Engineering perspective..

- the Phoenician-Minoan trading empire, which was mostly destroyed overnight by a volcanic eruption; this topic is HUGE, I think there's overwhelming evidence that these guys routinely traveled the planet around 1700-2000 BC and probably even before that, and mined copper in North America which then they transported to Europe; their magnificence even eclypsed Egypt ...

Do you, that would be interesting. Could you post up the evidence that leads you to believe this?

If this Empire was so big why do you think one volcano would have erased it?

[Arising_uk]

...

Technology is a projection of how one reasons about how reality works...the pyramids all over the world give evidence to some philosophical/religious movement of some form...

Or just an example of how Engineering develops.

[Arising_uk]

Yes. It's a crime that what should be a noble profession has been hijacked by self-serving, unimaginative, intellectually stunted wankers who see children as nothing more than political tools.

You apparently in the service of your monomania but off you go then, do something useful in your life and become a teacher and show the rest of us how it should be done.

[Eodnhoj7]

...

Technology is a projection of how one reasons about how reality works...the pyramids all over the world give evidence to some philosophical/religious movement of some form...

Or just an example of how Engineering develops.

Still of a projection of how we reason, the modern world is a reflection of how we view reality and ourselves. The same applies for this prior people. It would not be a stretch for them to observe that our process of reasoning exists through platonic forms as well as the repetition of events in nature sharing these base platonic generalities.

To observe reality as constructed purely through forms would necessitate a technology that is premised on forms.

Our current technology, as strictly a means of processing one phenomenon into another, is grounded in an inherent voidness. We take one phenomena, pull it apart, and change it into another resulting in an inherent change then wonder why all the confusion.

We see this with industries of various sorts:

Social media, as a zietgeist black box where the users' (plural) awareness and focus is the input and the output is some variation of that said awareness and focus in a fragmented state.

Standard refineries as the pulling up of resources and processing them into something else.

Industry where what is refined is then processed into something else such as a tool, or tech part, etc.

With industries processing into industries at a meta level (industry for making fire hoses requires an industry for certain rubber seals, which requires the rubber industry, which requires....)

Social engineering of schools where the natural awareness of the student is the input and the output is some variant of the students natural state.

Etc.

Engineering is thus a process of transmutation where we create various input/output devices that effectively cause a change in reality. This change, causes and inherent fragmentation that reverberates at the individual level of the pscyhe and the group level.

[Skepdick]

Or just an example of how Engineering develops.

I stumbled upon this comic today. Engineer vs Philosopher. Seems appropriate.

http://www.smbc-comics.com/index.php?db ... 1879#comic

[Skepdick]

Engineering is thus a process of transmutation where we create various input/output devices that effectively cause a change in reality.

Input/output
Process

What is all this scientific/engineering speak on a Philosophy forum!?!?

[Atla]

Take a look at the megaliths we build nowadays and have a rough guess as to why they built them.

In other words you don't know. Thank you for your contribution we expected no less.

I see you couldn't hold it in any longer and now bullshit is exploding all over the place. I could of course link a ton of evidence to most of what I said (and no, that eruption didn't erase the Phoenician-Minoans, only greatly weakened them, that's why I wrote "mostly destroyed", it's a long story which you apparently know nothing about, just as you know nothing about the hundreds of thousands of tons of missing copper from America etc.), but you aren't worth my time, but come on, what's this:

Tell it to the Chinese.

Given that there were ocean-faring peoples 50,000 years ago

This is huge. What on Earth are you talking about?

[Eodnhoj7]

Engineering is thus a process of transmutation where we create various input/output devices that effectively cause a change in reality.

Input/output
Process

What is all this scientific/engineering speak on a Philosophy forum!?!?

It is not a compliment, what I am stating is the black box creates chaos by fragmenting one axiom (one point of awareness as all axioms are assumed) into many.

This black box, as a form (as it is a form), is replicated in not just the abstractions of programming but empirical reality as well: industrial buildings, financial buildings, TV, social media devices, etc all share the basic box form which upon first glance appears meaningless but observes the same basic input output form.



I could use the words convergence and divergence or in and out as well. Tech speak for tech people.

[Arising_uk]

Still of a projection of how we reason, the modern world is a reflection of how we view reality and ourselves. The same applies for this prior people. ...

For sure but it's also a reflection on what materials and techniques were available at the time.

It would not be a stretch for them to observe that our process of reasoning exists through platonic forms as well as the repetition of events in nature sharing these base platonic generalities. ...

A pretty big stretch really as it's a retrospective view based upon your current thought about a thought from another era.

To observe reality as constructed purely through forms would necessitate a technology that is premised on forms. ...

More importantly it would requires 'forma' to exist.

Our current technology, as strictly a means of processing one phenomenon into another, is grounded in an inherent voidness. ...

An inherent what?

We take one phenomena, pull it apart, and change it into another resulting in an inherent change then wonder why all the confusion. ...

What confusion?

We see this with industries of various sorts:

Social media, as a zietgeist black box where the users' (plural) awareness and focus is the input and the output is some variation of that said awareness and focus in a fragmented state. ...

Or just lots of different opinions and viewpoints.

Standard refineries as the pulling up of resources and processing them into something else.

Industry where what is refined is then processed into something else such as a tool, or tech part, etc. ...

Where's the confusion in this?

With industries processing into industries at a meta level (industry for making fire hoses requires an industry for certain rubber seals, which requires the rubber industry, which requires....) ...

And the confusion here is?

Social engineering of schools where the natural awareness of the student is the input and the output is some variant of the students natural state. ...

I'd have thought schools were a kind of social engineering?

Etc.

Engineering is thus a process of transmutation where we create various input/output devices that effectively cause a change in reality. This change, causes and inherent fragmentation that reverberates at the individual level of the pscyhe and the group level.

Why is it fragmented, why is it not constructive?

[Arising_uk]

In other words you don't know. Thank you for your contribution we expected no less. ...

Who's this 'we'?

But my point exactly, how do you know all the waffle you've spouted about the intentions and motives of the Tepe builders.(Oh! I see now, you're just repeating the opinions in that link of yours and passing it off as 'your' hunches. )

I see you couldn't hold it in any longer and now bullshit is exploding all over the place. I could of course link a ton of evidence to most of what I said ...

Of course you could but like most interweeble loons you won't.

(and no, that eruption didn't erase the Phoenician-Minoans, only greatly weakened them, that's why I wrote "mostly destroyed", it's a long story which you apparently know nothing about, just as you know nothing about the hundreds of thousands of tons of missing copper from America etc.), but you aren't worth my time, ...

Presumably you can link us to the evidence of the remains of the infrastructure, i.e. refineries, harbours, tools, etc needed to mine and ship hundreds of thousands of tons of copper ore around the planet? I really would be interested.

but come on, what's this:

Tell it to the Chinese.

Have I got you wrong? You said 'civilizational collapse' around 1200-1150 BCE but the Chinese seem to have been fine and dandy.

This is huge. What on Earth are you talking about?

So I can add selective reading to the typical confirmation bias of the interweeble loon then can I?

How do you think the Australian aboriginals got there? No don't tell me, they flew on sky-boats powered by mystical electro-magnetic totems.

By-the-by, do you now agree that the pyramids have a nice and clear progression of building development?

[Eodnhoj7]

Still of a projection of how we reason, the modern world is a reflection of how we view reality and ourselves. The same applies for this prior people. ...

For sure but it's also a reflection on what materials and techniques were available at the time.

and what was available was a self reflective priest class.

It would not be a stretch for them to observe that our process of reasoning exists through platonic forms as well as the repetition of events in nature sharing these base platonic generalities. ...

A pretty big stretch really as it's a retrospective view based upon your current thought about a thought from another era.

not really the blank slate of Socrates alludes to a ground base for platonic forms.it would not be a stretch to observe the "eye of osiris" as an allegorical view of this nature of reality.

To observe reality as constructed purely through forms would necessitate a technology that is premised on forms. ...

More importantly it would requires 'forma' to exist.

And empirical phenomena are not formed by curvature or frequencies as curvature?

Our current technology, as strictly a means of processing one phenomenon into another, is grounded in an inherent voidness. ...

An inherent what?

Inverting the phenomena into another, one form into another requires the negation of that form through a formless state. Much like a rock is reduced to a formless state to pull out gold, the same thing applies.

Rather than voiding the self, through self reflection, we void the reality around us causing an instability as it becomes a projection of the axioms we embody (metaphorically speaking "gods" as localizations of reality). One God, one axiom, thus becomes polarized against another and the resulting chaos occurs. We can see this with the rise in tribalism and paganism in the west.

We take one phenomena, pull it apart, and change it into another resulting in an inherent change then wonder why all the confusion. ...

What confusion?

the same confusion and chaos the media projects. It is a loop. We put chaotic images in, and chaotic images come out and replicate.

We see this with industries of various sorts:

Social media, as a zietgeist black box where the users' (plural) awareness and focus is the input and the output is some variation of that said awareness and focus in a fragmented state. ...

Or just lots of different opinions and viewpoints.
Artificially produced and maintained.

Standard refineries as the pulling up of resources and processing them into something else.

Industry where what is refined is then processed into something else such as a tool, or tech part, etc. ...

Where's the confusion in this?

Complexity leads to confusion. Tell me how a fire hose is made vs how a lump of clay is turned into a vase by hand. More steps, more complexity, each step recursively results in further steps, etc.

With industries processing into industries at a meta level (industry for making fire hoses requires an industry for certain rubber seals, which requires the rubber industry, which requires....) ...

And the confusion here is?
complexity.

Social engineering of schools where the natural awareness of the student is the input and the output is some variant of the students natural state. ...

I'd have thought schools were a kind of social engineering?

I just said schools are social engineering.

Etc.

Engineering is thus a process of transmutation where we create various input/output devices that effectively cause a change in reality. This change, causes and inherent fragmentation that reverberates at the individual level of the pscyhe and the group level.

Why is it fragmented, why is it not constructive?

Constructive is a neutral term. One can construct glass beads by smashing a pot.