Philosophy Now Forum

The purpose of Philosophy is for the human mind to use this knowledge to reach out to truth and to find out once and for all who or what we are.

The purpose is to KNOW THYSELF. . . via knowledge. The thirst/desire to know is what mind does...so why not start with first knowing who or what is it that wants to know? ..what is this mind activity? what is thought?

When that is known, all knowledge comes to an end. The great beast is purged once and for all, and all that's left is the pure love and light that you've always been. . and it is seen, that nothing can or will ever harm or touch this ONE. This is called enlightenment.

I agree with everything Nick_A has ever said on this forum...albeit, in reality, no one is speaking or writing it only appears to be so as the story appears, aka knowledge as read by every ONE

We which “are alive and remain” shall be “caught up” at the same “last trump” as “the dead” who “are asleep” in Christ:

Nick_A wrote: ↑Thu Jun 21, 2018 2:59 am
From Jacob Needleman’s book: “The heart of Philosophy.” .

Chapter 1

Introduction

Man cannot live without philosophy. This is not a figure of speech but a literal fact that will be demonstrated in this book. There is a yearning in the heart that is nourished only by real philosophy and without this nourishment man dies as surely as if he were deprived of food and air. But this part of the human psyche is not known or honored in our culture. When it does breakthrough to our awareness it is either ignored or treated as something else. It is given wrong names; it is not cared for; it is crushed. And eventually, it may withdraw altogether, never again to appear. When this happens man becomes a thing. No matter what he accomplishes or experiences, no matter what happiness he experiences or what service he performs, he has in fact lost his real possibility. He is dead.

……………………….The function of philosophy in human life is to help Man remember. It has no other task. And anything that calls itself philosophy which does not serve this function is simply not philosophy……………………………….

Thank you Nick. . . this is an excellent quote you've provided for the ONE reading. (reading is for this ONE when it forgets itself, and has to revert to referencing in the form of knowledge, ONE does this on demand when ONE needs to know something it has temporally forgotten, but ONE may not need to worry, it's all stored in the memory of the forever present ONE)

Right here and now, this silence ever presence, there is no knowledge. All knowledge is available on demand for it...which is also here and now held as memory within this ever silent presence. ) okay..enough of real philosophy...lets get back to the point.

Nick, have you noticed that when philosophers ..you know those geeky guys and gals often called loonies, and insane, when they start entering into a deep philosophical discussion about the nature of the human condition with an indoctrinated person hell bent on trusting only to it's own religion namely, SCIENCE....have you noticed that the usual first response is from the typically programmed reaction ...they respond by saying ...hmm, lets not get too deep here, lets not get too philosophical about things...it's almost as if they are just not interested... so their first reaction is to silence the discussion immediately, or resort to calling the person interested in such discussion as an idiot, more often people are afraid of looking like an idiot, so they project that feeling onto the other person...Lets not go there they say.

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Weird that, but true, so yeah, you are right Nick, everything you talk about here puts the fear of peoples real selves into the spotlight... their only reaction is to call such discussions woo, or to call the other person in the discussion an idiot. But just so you know, I've never thought you are an idiot Nick, the only idiot here ...is the last idiot, and who is going to claim that title?

Well done Nick for holding firm to truth.

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Hello DaM

The purpose is to KNOW THYSELF. . . via knowledge. The thirst/desire to know is what mind does...so why not start with first knowing who or what is it that wants to know? ..what is this mind activity? what is thought?

When that is known, all knowledge comes to an end. The great beast is purged once and for all, and all that's left is the pure love and light that you've always been. . and it is seen, that nothing can or will ever harm or touch this ONE. This is called enlightenment.

Lots of good stuff. I’ll respond in part now but add more when I return later.

Let me begin by saying I believe the essence of Man is a plurality and not inner unity. What you refer to as the ONE in yourself I know of as the higher conscious part. It is one part of our collective plurality which contains both higher conscious and lower animal parts.. We differ in our attitude towards the animal part our plurality or the corrupted dark horse in Plato’s Chariot allegory. If I read you right you believe we have to ignore it.

I like the way Rudolph Steiner describes Man in relation to Lucifer and Ahriman. The Christ influence healing our emotional nature is what maintains the balance between Lucifer and Ahriman. It is the Christ influence that serves the cause of human conscious evolution. Emotion is the middle between the higher and lower and it is the middle which can evolve.

http://www.doyletics.com/arj/landarvw.htm

In Christian theology the forces of Christ are set against the forces of the devil who represents in one figure all that is evil, and one is exhorted to abjure all that is of the devil. This might lead one to wonder, "How is the knowledge of good and evil bad? Isn't that what the devil in the Garden of Eden wanted to share with Adam and Eve?"

Steiner divides the devil into two beings, Lucifer and Ahriman, and shows us how neither is bad per se, each provides gifts to human beings that further our evolution, and that it is us who must learn to balance these gifts in our individual lives. His recommendation for a solution to the problem of the devil is to transcend the tendency towards either Luciferic frenzy or Ahrimanic tedium by creating a spirit-filled synthesis of the two in our lives from now on……………...

Even though the Steiner tradition is not my calling, I find a great deal of valuable truth in it. It does seem we are in the Ahrimanic period now. Everything I find in the real world indicates it is so. We cannot just close our eyes and deny its influence in ourselves, We have to balance the Ahrimanic and Luciferic influences. We have to balance the two by introducing the third direction of thought which reconciles both. It is the Christ influence made possible by the Holy Spirit and what makes human conscious evolution possible.

I agree with your response Nick...but when you say....”We differ in our attitude towards the animal part our plurality or the corrupted dark horse in Plato’s Chariot allegory. If I read you right you believe we have to ignore it.”


I don’t think we should ignore it Nick..but rather embrace it as a welcome visitor. It has a lot to teach us.

What do you mean by I believe we have to ignore it?

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Dontaskme wrote: ↑Sat Jul 07, 2018 7:35 pm I agree with your response Nick...but when you say....”We differ in our attitude towards the animal part our plurality or the corrupted dark horse in Plato’s Chariot allegory. If I read you right you believe we have to ignore it.”


I don’t think we should ignore it Nick..but rather embrace it as a welcome visitor. It has a lot to teach us.

What do you mean by I believe we have to ignore it?

Maybe I've misunderstood you. I thought you believed that the only reality is pure consciousness so just deny animal man as an illusion.

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N/a

Dam

Right here and now, this silence ever presence, there is no knowledge. All knowledge is available on demand for it...which is also here and now held as memory within this ever silent presence. ) okay..enough of real philosophy...lets get back to the point.

Just out of curiousity, how do you understand Plato’s observation? At one time I was considering a thread on it but was concerned it would just devolve into secularism

Opinion is the medium between knowledge and ignorance. – Plato

Nick, have you noticed that when philosophers ..you know those geeky guys and gals often called loonies, and insane, when they start entering into a deep philosophical discussion about the nature of the human condition with an indoctrinated person hell bent on trusting only to it's own religion namely, SCIENCE....have you noticed that the usual first response is from the typically programmed reaction ...they respond by saying ...hmm, lets not get too deep here, lets not get too philosophical about things...it's almost as if they are just not interested... so their first reaction is to silence the discussion immediately, or resort to calling the person interested in such discussion as an idiot, more often people are afraid of looking like an idiot, so they project that feeling onto the other person...Lets not go there they say.

Yes, the deeper society reflects the Ahrimanic cycle the worse it will become. That is why I believe it is only through true conscious individuals, those hated by society, that the detrimental effects of the Ahrimanic cycle can be minimized.

Weird that, but true, so yeah, you are right Nick, everything you talk about here puts the fear of peoples real selves into the spotlight... their only reaction is to call such discussions woo, or to call the other person in the discussion an idiot. But just so you know, I've never thought you are an idiot Nick, the only idiot here ...is the last idiot, and who is going to claim that title?

My advantage is that I admit my idiocy. I once read this question: “What is gained by one idiot calling another idiot and idiot?” If Socrates was wise because he realized he knew nothing, he was an idiot. Why can’t I be an idiot too and ignorant of the reality of the forms?

We have the obligation to keep the purpose of reality as described by Jacob Needleman alive in society. I know it is hated but what if some philosophy student reads that excerpt by Jacob Needleman and it resonates with them after having become turned off to the attitudes of academic philosophy, it may save their life. That is why I Post those like Plato and Simone as well. It is annoying for secularism but necessary for the survival of others who are attracted to the love of wisdom. So I attract some growls. At least I’m not burned at the stake. It is the way of the world. If the light is within you, don’t lose it regardless of the growls.

"Pity them my children, they are far from home and no one knows them. Let those in quest of God be careful lest appearances deceive them in these people who are peculiar and hard to place; no one rightly knows them but those in whom the same light shines" Meister Eckhart

Nick_A wrote: ↑Sat Jul 07, 2018 9:31 pm

Just out of curiousity, how do you understand Plato’s observation? At one time I was considering a thread on it but was concerned it would just devolve into secularism

My understanding is that I totally understand Plato's analogy of the cave observation. No other version is necessary. Plato has hit the nail on the head which speaks for itself, his version will suffice. It's something we can all relate to, and understand.

How would I describe it myself, well since you've asked me, here's my take....All is essentially the light, but in order that the light experience / know itself as an animated living breathing walking talking material form it has to project itself in the appearance of a contrasting shadow ...the shadow being only a mirage believed to be real, while the real real is not the shadow, it's what's casting the shadow. The light is the unchanging constant essentially allowing the shadow the luxury of centre stage because that's what it desires. The light itself doesn't need to take on that role of being centre stage, it knows the shadow play wouldn't be possible without it...and so it stays well away from of all the drama, allowing unconditionally the drama to unfold as it so desires. While it itself has no desire for drama.

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Nick_A wrote: ↑Sat Jul 07, 2018 8:46 pm
Maybe I've misunderstood you. I thought you believed that the only reality is pure consciousness so just deny animal man as an illusion.

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All I'm saying is that the light is the real reality, the shadow is the phantom appearance of this real, the shadow is not real in and of itself since it's inseparable from it's castor. What's real is this immediate self shining presence here right now.

What human language does,it unknowingly puts a form onto the word using thought... but thought is just a perception, arising in this mysterious presence, the perception is possible because you are the perceiver, and being the perceiver you cannot be that which is perceived, you cannot be what you are perceiving , aka the concept...so what's happening here is the formless takes the shape of form as and through the mind - appearing as form as named by the word via thought.. the effect is a formless form, an apparent illusion appearing real. But the real is already here, it's doesn't appear, the appearance of it is the illusion. The actual real, the reality that is this self shining presence is not an illusion.

Reality being essentially tacit...appearing as every label as knowledge dictates... knowledge is just conceptual appearance, a mirage story sourced in this mysterious tacit not-knowing indescribable ineffable mystery that is this undeniable immediate presence.

It's not that the animal man is an illusion, animal man is very real in the sense that he is an inclusive aspect of this whole drama that is life unfolding... so I'm not denying anything, because all ideas are inclusive of this tacit reality including every concept or thought.

Only I myself can understand how I see reality, since I am the one here in which the vision is arising, it matters not to me what others think about how I see it. I can only experience the god of my own understanding, as it is experienced in this one here.

Having said that, I can and do very often resonate with other peoples ideas, like I always do with yours, but that does not take anything away from my own beliefs that are already true for me. It matters not whether people misunderstand other peoples ideas, we can only see our own visions anyway, we cannot see other peoples visions directly, we can only resonate with them as our own.

Sorry this is a bit long winded, but I simply can't put all that is truth to me.. into just one sentence.



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Nick_A wrote: ↑Sat Jul 07, 2018 9:31 pmSo I attract some growls. At least I’m not burned at the stake. It is the way of the world. If the light is within you, don’t lose it regardless of the growls.

You and I both know..one cannot lose what they already are essentially aka the light aka the supreme being, aka the supreme and ultimate power...the only real power there is...but the lights shadow fights for superior position, it is afraid of it's own demise, so it clings to it for dear life, even though it instinctively knows it owes it's being to something greater than itself aka the infinite eternal castor, but still it refuses to surrender to this greater reality in fear of it's own demise. It's a poor sad little sac indeed...all in vain of course, in truth it's rich beyond it's wildest dreams, if only it realised. That until it does realise that it never cost itself a single penny, and that is was always and ever this abundant light which is totally free of charge.

"Pity them my children, they are far from home and no one knows them. Let those in quest of God be careful lest appearances deceive them in these people who are peculiar and hard to place; no one rightly knows them but those in whom the same light shines" Meister Eckhart

Good quote.

DaM

All I'm saying is that the light is the real reality, the shadow is the phantom appearance of this real, the shadow is not real in and of itself since it's inseparable from it's castor. What's real is this immediate self shining presence here right now.

What human language does,it unknowingly puts a form onto the word using thought... but thought is just a perception, arising in this mysterious presence, the perception is possible because you are the perceiver, and being the perceiver you cannot be that which is perceived, you cannot be what you are perceiving , aka the concept...so what's happening here is the formless takes the shape of form as and through the mind - appearing as form as named by the word via thought.. the effect is a formless form, an apparent illusion appearing real. But the real is already here, it's doesn't appear, the appearance of it is the illusion. The actual real, the reality that is this self shining presence is not an illusion.

We seem to agree that at best opinions are partial truths in the cause of wisdom. Fractions re dependent on the whole for their reality. Rather than accepting this reality and its limitations, philosophy has become the battleground for arguing opinions. Opening to the whole is sacrificed to the battle over fractions.

But anyone open to appreciating the problem will eventually ask why it is so. Secularism insists it is a matter of intellect while those open to the essence of religion know the problem is our dark horse: the heart. If this is true the secular university and its secular intolerance will only make matters worse.

Do me a favor. Read these two paragraphs. Has dominant secularism IYO presented man with a concept of man which is not true? If true, would you agree that the refusal to recognize the corruption of the heart only leads to expressions of societal corruption regardless of all the wonderful thoughts secularism speaks of. If we agree on a source, isn’t it the heart that remembers our connection with it and remembering is the purpose of philosophy. If we could remember, would the next Auschwitz be possible. If we insist that Man is only a product of heredity and environment, isn’t the next genocide inevitable?

If we present man with a concept of man which is not true, we may well corrupt him. When we present him as an automation of reflexes, as a mind-machine, as a bundle of instincts, as a pawn of drives and reactions, as a mere product of instincts, heredity, and environment, we feed the despair to which man is, in any case, already prone. I became acquainted with the last stages of corruption in my second concentration camp in Auschwitz. The gas chambers of Auschwitz were the ultimate consequence of the theory that man is nothing but the product of heredity and environment—or, as the Nazis liked to say, of ‘Blood and Soil.’ I am absolutely convinced that the gas chambers of Auschwitz, Treblinka, and Maidanek were ultimately prepared not in some Ministry or other in Berlin, but rather at the desks and in the lecture halls of nihilistic scientists and philosophers.
—Viktor E. Frankl, Holocaust survivor and Professor of Neurology and Psychiatry, University of Vienna Medical School; from his book, The Doctor and the Soul

It is in Man’s power to treat himself as a mere ‘natural object’ and his judgments of value as raw material for scientific manipulation to alter at will. . . . The real objection is that if man chooses to treat himself as raw material, raw material he will be: not raw material to be manipulated, as he fondly imagined, by himself, but by mere appetite, that is, mere Nature, in the person of his de-humanized Conditioners. . . . A dogmatic belief in objective value is necessary to the very idea of a rule which is not tyranny or an obedience which is not slavery.
—C. S. Lewis, Professor of Medieval and Renaissance English, Cambridge University; from his book, The Abolition of Man

Nick:

If we agree on a source, isn’t it the heart that remembers our connection with it and remembering is the purpose of philosophy. If we could remember, would the next Auschwitz be possible

I agree the heart remembers- - - and those who remember leave the earth plane mentally even though they are still here physically.

Those who don’t leave the earth plane, (ascend) will be fearful. Those who do ascend will not be fearful, although they too will become swept along with the current tide of events however catastrophic those events maybe. What ever happens on earth will effect us all physically, but not mentally for those who have ascended.

Physically, we all basically go down with the sinking ship together.

Those who transcend duality become fearless, knowing their pure immortal presence cannot be touched by anything caused my human activity...while those who remain living in their mental heads of separation will continue the false charade that is the them verses us mentality aka separation. Everyone has equal chance to save themselves if they so choose to do so, so no one is excluded from the ultimate truth of the two opposing ideas.



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Atrocities will never be eliminated in the world of duality, it’s a necessary part of conscious evolution. Balance and discernment is the key. There has to be war if there is to be peace, there has to conditioned love if there is to be uncondional love. There has to be balance.

The purpose of philosophy is theoretically a means to pursue wisdom. We’ve learned that it is rejected in favor of pursuing self justification. Doing this leads to fixating on one of the branches of philosophy and ignoring the rest. Reasoning in this way is fun and entertaining but cannot further the pursuit of wisdom.

Consider the branches of philosophy as outlined in this description of philosophy defined as the love of wisdom. Are there any remaining in these times of specialization who would be capable of integrating the branches of philosophy into an integrated whole worthy of the description of philosophy as the love of wisdom? Would they be respected or just shouted down in the cause of self justification by means of the fixation on specialization? They surely will not be respected by the majority.

https://philosophy.fsu.edu/undergraduat ... Philosophy

1. Philosophy is defined as the love of wisdom. It consists of:
2. Metaphysics
3. Epistemology
4. Ethics
5. Logic
6. History of Philosophy

It is indeed a very rare person who could integrate these branches in pursuit of the wholeness of wisdom. For example who do you know capable of being simultaneously open to logic and metaphysics? If this is the case we have sacrificed the purpose of philosophy to the need for self justification and cash. As is said: “No good deed goes unpunished.”

DaM

Atrocities will never be eliminated in the world of duality, it’s a necessary part of conscious evolution. Balance and discernment is the key. There has to be war if there is to be peace, there has to conditioned love if there is to be uncondional love. There has to be balance.

But must we be limited to the world of duality? One of the best kept secrets in the secular world is that we are "third force blind." Are you familiar with the term?

Nick_A wrote: ↑Sun Jul 15, 2018 8:29 pm DaM

Atrocities will never be eliminated in the world of duality, it’s a necessary part of conscious evolution. Balance and discernment is the key. There has to be war if there is to be peace, there has to conditioned love if there is to be uncondional love. There has to be balance.

But must we be limited to the world of duality? One of the best kept secrets in the secular world is that we are "third force blind." Are you familiar with the term?

No idea what that term means..sorry.

It’s not that we must be limited, because what we are essentially is not limited. However, experiences have a limited nature, they are transient temporal events....the unlimited must take the form of limitation in order to enjoy the myriad of experiences of every conceivable permutation possible...while our ultimate essential self remains forever unlimited.

As for this comment...” who do you know capable of being simultaneously open to logic and metaphysics“

Being open to the truth of who you are essentially is known as enlightenment. Whether one is enlightened or not is dependent on life itself, it is life that evolves the capacity for one to become enlightened. And enlightenment will not come one second before it is ready, evolved to be so.

The whole purpose of philosophy is to awaken and life will evolve that in one as and when it happens and not one second before. So it’s not something you get, it gets you.

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