Philosophy Now Forum

Belinda wrote:DontAskMe wrote:

W

e should surrender to God Himself.

We should not surrender to a Being Who is so stupid or so malign that He made a world in which children are tortured to death by being buried alive by landslides.

Babies buried alive in landslides is one of many many examples of God's incredibly stupid planning ability. I can give you many more examples.

What about all the other earthly creatures that innocently get caught up in natures wrath....don't see them moaning about it.

Okay, according to Belinda, there is no God..so all we are is just an elaborate blob of protoplasm that's just appeared out of nowhere from nothing and evolved into a form of pond scum which later developed the form of an hairless ape wearing lipstick and perfume strutting around banging it's fists against it's chest on a breath taking beautiful awesome stunning planet we were given free without charge, with an abundant amount of natural resources so we could eat fine foods and make fine houses, cars, bridges, diamond rings, washing machines, and all the rest ..and that this incredible body we believed to be personally ours, was given free as well, and that we didn't even have to lift a finger to make or design or plan it our self..it was just effortlessly given to us..already complete and functioning...and not like some flat-pack piece of furniture that we have to put together our self, it was built by an intelligence conscientious rational reasoning mind that already existed else we wouldn't be here seeing it's effects...and all we can do is say.. it's stupidly planned, and then complain about how this life is so unfair, and that it must be the fault of the one who started it all ...even though logic points to a causeless cause ..so no one's fault really...but by golly one has to blame something, cause it's just not fair is it, and that's the right thing to do isn't it, that's what we do, don't we...so then we do this until death comes, until our bodies rot and become worm fodder...so God only knows why we would even for one second waste our time complaining about a Godless life with no reason or purpose. Why would we even care about all the awful horrible parts of life if it's all just a random one off event that happened by pure accident...why even care, why would we waste time worrying about such a trivial meaningless existence, shouldn't we instead just be like all the rest of nature's animals, and plants and just suck it all up and swallow it down in one big gulp graciously ... but no I here you cry, we're a little bit more important aren't we...?? Can a living rational reasoning conscientious living mind have just come from a nonliving dead nothingness...or has it always existed as a causeless cause?

And what we are at it, lets just forget about all the good things about life, as if they didn't count at all. And lets just forget the miracle that is the human body in the first place, could God ..aka the mind have fulfilled any dream to come true without building a dream body complete with a rational conscience mind to boot to carry the dream out in realtime ? .. but then, it's not fair, I don't like it, this is stupid...without ever considering that this is actually all there is to it...this is it..this is all there is, was and ever will be, but I guess that's just not going to be good enough for some people is it. But then one can always kill them self if they don't like it. Or they can say, I've got this free gift of a reasoning rational mind, that I didn't make myself, but we'll just conveniently forget that and call it useless instead of calling it the best thing since sliced bread and what can I do with it, how can I use this gift to the best of my advantage, how I am I going to call this?

Who yer gonna call....Ghostbusters!!

Or are you going to call it the flatline way______________________________________


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surreptitious57 wrote:
The Bible says insects have four legs whereas reality says they have six so which one do you think is telling the truth

Lets not confuse mythology with bona-fide real historical documents.

The Bible never claimed to be 100% scientific. Some passages were never intended to be taken with exact literalness.

Dontaskme wrote:

surreptitious57 wrote:
The Bible says insects have four legs whereas reality says they have six so which one do you think is telling the truth

Some passages were never intended to be taken with exact literalness

Would those passages include all the ones which are most definitely not true because they cannot be so
Since if they do then the whole raison d etre of Christianity simply ceases to be as a direct consequence
But if they do not then how do you explain that which is demonstrably impossible actually being possible

surreptitious57 wrote:

Dontaskme wrote:

surreptitious57 wrote:
The Bible says insects have four legs whereas reality says they have six so which one do you think is telling the truth

Some passages were never intended to be taken with exact literalness

Would those passages include all the ones which are most definitely not true because they cannot be so
Since if they do then the whole raison d etre of Christianity simply ceases to be as a direct consequence
But if they do not then how do you explain that which is demonstrably impossible actually being possible

Some authors wrote in metaphorical prose as the only method available with the intent of pointing the reader to the fact that there is an invisible force in operation which is clearly visible to those who believe, not by seeing with their physical eyes, but by seeing with the invisible all knowing eye.

We've only got a mind to reason rationalize and interpret reality with...that power is not human, a human is just a conceptual idea, it's a mental construction believed to be real entity, given by the power of the mind itself... A mind has never been seen, it is what's seeing...one doesn't have to rely on seeing is believing before one is convinced of a truth...there is already absolute truth running reality right now...as this consciousness that is looking at itself. We are the contents of consciousness trying to analyze consciousness that already is... self evidently looking at itself. . . it is the invisible seen.

Anything that cannot be seen, yet is what's seeing get's my absolute trust every time.. ..I can only be faithful to that one only.

As for surreptitious57 ...I say believe what ever you want to believe, interpret reality how ever you see fit that matches your own unique model of what constitutes reality for you...do your own intensive research...there is no one here forcing you to take on any other view - your view can never be taken away from you.

If you find yourself searching for a higher truth to your life then you and only you must make up your own mind about it by committing yourself to some very deep soul searching extensive research...until you are satisfied and not influenced by a second opinion that is not going to be your own gut instinct. When Jesus said ''the truth is with you''...he wasn't kidding.

I don't believe the bible is just some meaningless bunch of fairy stories that some authors in the way distant past decided to write one day just for the fun of it as a way of staving off some boredom that may or may not have existed back in the day before i-pads, i-phones, nintendo's and lap-top computers were invented. I believe there is a causeless cause which is the mind that want's to experiences itself in realtime, it wants to have a relationship with itself and that's why the physical human body was built as the instrument capable of receiving and transmitting intelligent data into living pictures, all of which are self evident of a very rational reasoning creative intelligent mind.


Sorry for the rant...

DontAskMe wrote:

Okay, according to Belinda, there is no God..so all we are is just an elaborate blob of protoplasm that's just appeared out of nowhere from nothing and evolved into a form of pond scum which la

There is no such stuff as protoplasm but I get your drift. Some of us take responsibility for self and don't look to a god to make it all come right.

Belinda wrote:DontAskMe wrote:

Okay, according to Belinda, there is no God..so all we are is just an elaborate blob of protoplasm that's just appeared out of nowhere from nothing and evolved into a form of pond scum which la

There is no such stuff as protoplasm but I get your drift. Some of us take responsibility for self and don't look to a god to make it all come right.

Yeah, responsibility .. it's called unconditional love.

Can your science prove loves existence? ...no it can't, but it exists nonetheless.

Can it be seen? according to science if it's not physically proven in the actual seen thing ..then it's not fallible.

And is exactly why '' Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind''

Religion is not a dirty word you know...it's an intrinsic basic human practice.. a way of discerning between what is real and what is unreal.
A way of life.

Love can be a dirty word though, because LOVE IS A VERB....it doesn't in any shape or form imply two.

You do not love someone.. someone does not love you.. No one can give you love.. you cannot give love to other.


YOU ARE LOVE. . . < Big difference.

Belinda wrote: Some of us take responsibility for self and don't look to a god to make it all come right.

I want to ask you a question about taking responsibility for self?

Do you believe that you Belinda are the sole author of Belinda's life?

surreptitious57 wrote:
I think Belinda assumed full responsibility for her life once society deemed her capable of doing so

It seems like you are saying .. until society makes the judgement call that we can only be the earners and sole judges of our own self authored lives when our society deems us fit to do so ?... is that right?

DontAskMe wrote:

It seems like you are saying .. until society makes the judgement call that we can only be the earners and sole judges of our own self authored lives when our society deems us fit to do so ?... is that right?

Some societies, past and present, hardly infantilise children at all, and what we in Western Europe class as 'children' in other parts of the world go to work to support themselves and their families, or are abandoned to die or learn to be street children ,instead of going to school and instead of getting the protection of parents until they are seventeen or eighteen or even older. Yes, societies do make the judgement of when we are able to take responsibility for ourselves.

Modern education in free democracies ideally aims to educate children to be as able as possible to make knowledgeable, independent, and considered judgements. It's called 'critical thinking'.

Belinda wrote:DontAskMe wrote:

It seems like you are saying .. until society makes the judgement call that we can only be the earners and sole judges of our own self authored lives when our society deems us fit to do so ?... is that right?

Some societies, past and present, hardly infantilise children at all, and what we in Western Europe class as 'children' in other parts of the world go to work to support themselves and their families, or are abandoned to die or learn to be street children ,instead of going to school and instead of getting the protection of parents until they are seventeen or eighteen or even older. Yes, societies do make the judgement of when we are able to take responsibility for ourselves.

Modern education in free democracies ideally aims to educate children to be as able as possible to make knowledgeable, independent, and considered judgements. It's called 'critical thinking'.

Oh really, well I would never have thought that!

So yes, of course and this is so obvious and perfect evidence of the existence of a critical thinking rational conscientious mind . . but here you are just repeating the knowledge that society has imposed upon you... and that this does not answer the original question I put to you which was...


I want to ask you a question about taking responsibility for self?

Do you believe that you Belinda are the sole author of Belinda's life?

Now it has been ascertained by society that you are now old enough and mature enough to be the author of your own critical thinking mind?

IS Belinda are the sole author of Belinda's life? ..YES OR NO ?

DontAskMe wrote:

IS Belinda are the sole author of Belinda's life? ..YES OR NO ?

No.

I am not free to break my country's laws. And if I transgress against certain moral laws I will have a bad conscience.

I cannot go against the natural laws of my biology; similarly i cannot walk through walls.

When I was a child I was even less free as at that time I was being taught how to take care of myself and others.

When I am ill and have to go to a hospital I will allow myself to be ruled by the experts there.

I cannnot normally choose when my life will end.

Within those and probably other boundaries I take responsibility for my decisions and my beliefs.

Belinda wrote:DontAskMe wrote:

IS Belinda are the sole author of Belinda's life? ..YES OR NO ?

No.

I am not free to break my country's laws. And if I transgress against certain moral laws I will have a bad conscience.

I cannot go against the natural laws of my biology; similarly i cannot walk through walls.

When I was a child I was even less free as at that time I was being taught how to take care of myself and others.

When I am ill and have to go to a hospital I will allow myself to be ruled by the experts there.

I cannnot normally choose when my life will end.

Within those and probably other boundaries I take responsibility for my decisions and my beliefs.

So here you are saying no to the idea that you have a free will to choose to be for or go against the will of what your society says is morally right?

And according to you, when you are living from a good conscience you are cultivating that conscience for yourself as the only acceptable way to live life....is that right? ..yes or no?

DontAskMe wrote:

So here you are saying no to the idea that you have a free will to choose to be for or go against the will of what your society says is morally right?

And according to you, when you are living from a good conscience you are cultivating that conscience for yourself as the only acceptable way to live life....is that right? ..yes or no

It depends on what you mean by "free will". There are causes for what I do. I don't do anything without cause, including when i don't know what the cause is.

My conscience matters to me. Yes, when I am conscientious I am making more of a habit of being conscientious. I would be unhappy if I went against my conscience. Sometimes it is difficult to know what is the right thing to do. For instance in the forthcoming election I want to be reasonably sure that I am voting for the right candidate. When we are acting as responsible adults it's one of our responsibilities to acquire knowledge and think before we make decisions.