Philosophy Now Forum

Posted: **Fri Nov 11, 2016 9:29 pm**

Walker wrote: Election analysis is showing that Trump did well with the female vote.

Beyonce is one of the favorite “artists” of the POTUS.
He and the first lady have hosted her many times in the White House.
He's down with the folks.

WHITE women.
Not Black

Posted: **Fri Nov 11, 2016 9:29 pm**

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UcmmJqRbRbQ

Posted: **Fri Nov 11, 2016 9:47 pm**

Walker wrote:...
He chose politics at the end of his successful career in business. ...

Hmm... I think his dad may have been this but even there what the did was milk the govt schemes, Trump just continued this process and dodged paying tax, on top of that he's cheated his contractors and been bankrupt quite a few times, so not quite a Steve Jobs or Bill Gates.

In the big view, that is the proper sequence of life.
...

We agree here. One of the major problems in modern politics is the Party system and career politicians. But this could just be a consequence of the complications of running an advanced Democracy.

Just wait until Trump finds out what Obama knows.
Then you might see some policy changes.

Could be and let's hope so. As I've just read that you have no checks and balances on your nuclear trigger!?

What really worries me is that Trump appears to think he can deal with Putin as tho' he's an equal, as tho' Putin is just a 'business man'. Whereas in reality Putin is out of the Soviet Stalinist KGB school of hard knocks and compared to him Trump is a fat powder-puff who got where he is through nepotism and not any obvious innate ability.

Posted: **Fri Nov 11, 2016 9:54 pm**

Arising_uk wrote:Trump is a fat powder-puff who got where he is through nepotism and not any obvious innate ability.

Please, you obviously don't like the man, Kim, but don't talk like a wannabe DC.

Posted: **Fri Nov 11, 2016 10:16 pm**

AUK wrote:And yet what has actually caused the resentment is a class issue and Capitalism not a race issue, in that the working class have been left behind and left out of the wealth generated by industrial globalization that both the rich and upper middle-classes of all colours on both Republican and Democrat sides have massively benefited from. The ordinary American(and British) person is earning less wages than they were in the 1970's and it's this that allows the fascist and racist to get their divisive rhetoric heard. Obama's mistake was to ignore class issues but then all Americans shy from such issues as they have the mistaken belief that they live in a classless society.

I suppose this would follow from your basic and operational predicates, no? Your primary analytical lens is that of Marxism, right? I would modify your statement though, just one word: "And yet what has actually caused the resentment is a class issue and Capitalism not a race issue alone".

In the best of all possible worlds, it would simply have been a better choice if America had maintained itself demographically and avoided the shift of 1965 Immigration and Nationality Act. But of course I am aware that those who hold this view are presently in a minority.

If you agree with Michael Moore, it is definitely the collapse of the manufacturing regions which affected many very middle-Americans and did not evoke in them love of the present dispensation nor its architects. If you look at the election maps that entire region is heavily in support of him.

And I'll bet you that most Americans are not that concerned about race. They would not be able to nor interested in articulating the position I attempt and people like Greg Johnson et al. But it is a false premise to reduce racial and cultural conflict to a 'class' issue. Or to describe it as being abnormal. In fact it is completely normal.

Americans in the early days defined themselves through their regional affiliation. You know, a Virginian, a Tennessean, a Carolinian, et cetera. My impression has been that the larger definiton of 'American' was a developed identity. But when Lincoln came on the scene the Federal unity enterprise and the notion of Americanism as bond was more emphasized. And then the assertion of a propositional relationship to citizenship. ("... and dedicated to the proposition that all men are created equal'). I suggest that to know yourself a part and a member of your region, your people, your community and your familay is stronger than to be bound through a 'proposition'. I think, personally of course, that the entire structure of this 'proposition' has in fact collapsed. What really links people in national community?

The position of 'white nationalism' is a self-protectionist stand at its base. In its best manifestation it is not 'racist' as you understand racist to mean. It is separatist which is quite different. Exclusive, and less or not much inclusive. To regain racial homogeneity when it is not very threatened and when there is still a chance to do it relatively easily (painlessly) is the best option. Most of Europe is in such a situation. In the USA this would be a far more difficult project. It might even be impossible without a civil conflict, secession or something along those lines. History is replete with such events. On a darker note, Guillaume Faye predicts a civil-economic crisis and then a regrouping. His is an apocalyptic vision overall.

I will certainly admit that it is a complex issue and one requiring many levels of definition.

Posted: **Fri Nov 11, 2016 11:12 pm**

Hobbes' Choice wrote:
Walker wrote: Election analysis is showing that Trump did well with the female vote.

Beyonce is one of the favorite “artists” of the POTUS.
He and the first lady have hosted her many times in the White House.
He's down with the folks.
WHITE women.
Not Black

What do you mean, WHITE women? There is no such thing as black or white women! Or women! We are all hupersons. Or is 'hu' offensive to other atom clusters?

Posted: **Fri Nov 11, 2016 11:27 pm**

bobevenson wrote:Please, you obviously don't like the man, Kim, but don't talk like a wannabe DFC.

What is a DFC when it's at home?

I didn't really hold any opinion about him at all, other than when he was over here he was just another loud-mouthed Yank, but then I had the misfortune of watching a USA celebrity apprentice and was appalled that when he asked the contestants for an honest opinion about whether their video was better than the other team's he went and fired Lou Ferrigno for not being a 'team-player' when he said the other teams, even tho' he agreed that the other teams was better. So basically he values lies and yes-men.

Posted: **Fri Nov 11, 2016 11:30 pm**

Gustav Bjornstrand wrote:...
And I'll bet you that most Americans are not that concerned about race. They would not be able to nor interested in articulating the position I attempt and people like Greg Johnson et al. But it is a false premise to reduce racial and cultural conflict to a 'class' issue. Or to describe it as being abnormal. In fact it is completely normal. ...

And yet its not historically is it. The race issues you appear concerned with are a new historical event are they not. The vast majority of human cultures that have existed did and do not appear to have these 'normal' issues.

As an aside, I think this why Islam will supplant Christianity if it does not change the racial aspect that has crept in as Islam is very colour-blind in this respect. Now it may have some cultural phobias to deal with, to wit the Arab thinking them the 'true' heirs of Islam but then they'll have to be dealing with the Asian Muslim's sooner or later.

Posted: **Sat Nov 12, 2016 2:51 am**

Arising_uk wrote:What really worries me is that Trump appears to think he can deal with Putin as tho' he's an equal, as tho' Putin is just a 'business man'. Whereas in reality Putin is out of the Soviet Stalinist KGB school of hard knocks and compared to him Trump is a fat powder-puff who got where he is through nepotism and not any obvious innate ability.

Long after the price is forgotten, the quality remains.

If you have the means, quality is always recommended.

Used to be the U.S. was synonymous with quality. To a large degree, the statistician Bill Deming was responsible for that. Deming put quality in a bottle and gave it to Japan, so they could recover.

Trump knows a lot about the principles of quality and their manifestations on the physical plane.
You might say, he’s an expert.
He surrounds himself with the beauty of quality.

Trump’s method has been persuasion with mind and voice.
This talent will certainly be tested on the world stage.

Putin has other means of persuasion. He’s more of a chess player for power and control. Reportedly, Trump’s win was popular in Moscow.

If there’s any danger in Trump’s presidency, it is because of his success in business negotiations. He likely has a faith in that skill and there is a possibility that he may blink in the face of what raw power actually means in terms of life and death. He has never made those decisions, in combat or politics. But there is no indication that Trump is a coward, or out of control.

Rather than to coercion, Trump has devoted his attention to sniffing out quality in people, who he promotes to their level of competence to promote his brand. Trump may lack the cold resolve and ideology that enables Putin, in that neck of the woods where Putin lives.

However, Trump ran his campaign in a businesslike and intuitive way. He made shrewd selections of talent and followed their advice. Most impressive.

Talk about your situational awareness … Trump defined it.

No reason to see why that shouldn’t continue.

Posted: **Sat Nov 12, 2016 3:17 am**

vegetariantaxidermy wrote:Oh please. That must have taken a lot of effort, googling 'Obama foments racial divide'. I'm sure you can find plenty of sites to back up 'smoking is good for your health' too.

Why Smoking Can Be Good For You
- The Puffington Post, living section
http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/marvin-ros ... 54106.html

Posted: **Sat Nov 12, 2016 10:06 am**

vegetariantaxidermy wrote:
Hobbes' Choice wrote:
Walker wrote: Election analysis is showing that Trump did well with the female vote.

Beyonce is one of the favorite “artists” of the POTUS.
He and the first lady have hosted her many times in the White House.
He's down with the folks.
WHITE women.
Not Black
What do you mean, WHITE women? There is no such thing as black or white women! Or women! We are all hupersons. Or is 'hu' offensive to other atom clusters?

Trump used "race" as part of his campaign. The definitions of black and white are not mine, but part of the American official obsession with what they like to call "race".
This is your problem and the problem of other obsessive categorisers, which like to pigeon hole people as having a set of characteristics, which none of them seem to want to comply with.

Posted: **Sat Nov 12, 2016 12:42 pm**

An interesting perspective.

Posted: **Sat Nov 12, 2016 2:25 pm**

Gustav Bjornstrand wrote:An interesting perspective.

That was funny. Reasonable, right up until the end.
He’s one of them revoluuuutionaries.

Trump simply has to tell the rioters to behave.
Let Obama keep giving them all the rope they want, for now.
Perhaps even sympathize with their delusions.

They can’t keep it going anyway. Cold weather, holidays.

Right now, the situation is Obama’s creation and problem.
Old karma.

Obama just has to endure it a bit longer until the end of the rainbow, and happily ever after.

Posted: **Sat Nov 12, 2016 2:39 pm**

vegetariantaxidermy wrote:The irony. The 'tolerant progressives' are having a big hissy-fit because they didn't get their own way, and Trump voters are being the reasonable ones, calling his wall promises 'metaphorical' and saying they wouldn't be all that bothered if a literal wall never got built 'Progressives' should look at themselves to see why he won. People just get turned off by their hypocrisy and thought-policing.

That's right. The Progressive mentality is philosopher-king, ruling over the unwashed, more suitable for a benevolent dictatorship. I mean, if we're talking hundred-year vision of global warming, the masses need not pay attention to what's actually going on now, because now is for the future and rulers have the consensus.

Here I thought 'tolerant progressives' was a simple contradiction in terms. I didn't think anyone actually believed that.

I never fell for that one. Assuming good intentions of those who did, that would be a case of delusion empowering thought and action. Give that some authority and watch out world, and the world now knows through the blunders of the last Progressive administration. I’d say that in referencing corruption to politics, what gets corrupted in peoples’ heads, is truth.

Applies outside of politics, too. So what. People have known that for a long time. The answer to so what is, people seek purification in one way or another, whether or not they know it. A smart culture provides a way that is socially acceptable.

It is inherent in the organism to balance for health to maintain life, sometimes in complex ways to purify the mind/body connection, because after all, we are clever critters who make up elaborate stories to justify what we must do. The body naturally vomits toxins, as does the body politic.

And to look at it critically, Trump is still an unknown. He was elected on proven potential, unlike Obama.

Posted: **Sat Nov 12, 2016 4:48 pm**

vegetariantaxidermy wrote:The 'tolerant progressives' are having a big hissy-fit because they didn't get their own way, and Trump voters are being the reasonable ones

So it's a "hissy-fit" to actively oppose a psychotic clown being chosen (through an archaic system... or any system at all) to lead and control a country -- but it's "reasonable" to calmly subscribe to and accept such madness?

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