Philosophy Now Forum

What, you don't wish to discuss your needy universe ?

"if you had no concept of candy, or fruit, or sweet, would you pine for it"

No, and - equally - having no concept for suffering, I wouldn't fear it.

Simply: not seein' how the possibility (or probability, even) of suffering leads to an ethical obligation to not procreate or to champion the end of procreation.

marjoram_blues wrote:What, you don't wish to discuss your needy universe ?

If you have something to add that isn't pure crap, by all means, disgorge your thoughts onto the medium.

henry quirk wrote:"if you had no concept of candy, or fruit, or sweet, would you pine for it"

No, and - equally - having no concept for suffering, I wouldn't fear it.

Simply: not seein' how the possibility (or probability, even) of suffering leads to an ethical obligation to not procreate or to champion the end of procreation.

There is no ethical obligation to not cause harm or suffering to innocents? Is that what you are saying, Henry?

Again, it's okay for you to decide to play Russian roulette. It is not okay to force someone else to play. And that is what you do, when you create a life. You lead it to inevitable harm, and eventual death.

Dalek Prime wrote: Let me help you there. In the control panel is a blocking mechanism. Paste my name, and presto...

Where's the fun in that?

Harbal wrote:

Dalek Prime wrote: Let me help you there. In the control panel is a blocking mechanism. Paste my name, and presto...

Where's the fun in that?

Horse, water. Fine, don't drink it.

Dalek Prime wrote:

marjoram_blues wrote:What, you don't wish to discuss your needy universe ?

If you have something to add that isn't pure crap, by all means, disgorge your thoughts onto the medium.

No, your avoidance strategy is clear. Your universe argument is not convincing. It fails and you know it.
Good night.

marjoram_blues wrote:

Dalek Prime wrote:

marjoram_blues wrote:What, you don't wish to discuss your needy universe ?

If you have something to add that isn't pure crap, by all means, disgorge your thoughts onto the medium.

No, your avoidance strategy is clear. Your universe argument is not convincing. It fails and you know it.
Good night.

Try making sense, idiot. You are saying the universe is aware and conscious, and can suffer and feel pain? And you got this information from? A cereal box, marjoram?

Never mind. You are clearly less of a danger to the general public asleep, in bed.

See, right there, there's your problem: you assume, from the start, the suffering, and don't factor in the balance of other, equally possible, states.

And: how can I protect an innocent if he or she doesn't exist?

What I'm gettin' is: because little Joe might be hurt, it's better for little Joe to never exist.

If that's the case, then I counter with: because little Joe might experience wonders and joys, it's better for little Joe to exist.


Now, I'm outta here...got a kid waitin' on me to ramble about with him.

Till tomorrow.

Dalek Prime wrote:I just care about people, perhaps too much

I've always sensed that about you...

Dalek Prime wrote:...you were born to serve others. You weren't born for your own desires. Do you recall sitting in the aether, wishing someone would fuck, so you could be born and stuff your face with ice cream?

Sounds like a possible scenario.

Hey, my trip has been full of crazy ass stuff, as well as kickass stuff... and it feels like a lifetime adventure. I think I prefer that entertainment over nothingness... which I'll go back to soon enough. The way I look at it, this is a game... and I'm trying to play it the best way I can (with all sorts of variables constantly popping up). I can be good at it or bad at it... but the entertainment continues, and the lows return to highs. You play games, right? Don't you get totally swept up in them to see what you can do? Isn't that a thrill? How is this (life) any different? Because we actually feel pain and suffering at times? That's just because it's the ULTIMATE game!!

Respectfully... your friend Lacewing.

henry quirk wrote:See, right there, there's your problem: you assume, from the start, the suffering, and don't factor in the balance of other, equally possible, states.

And: how can I protect an innocent if he or she doesn't exist?

What I'm gettin' is: because little Joe might be hurt, it's better for little Joe to never exist.

If that's the case, then I counter with: because little Joe might experience wonders and joys, it's better for little Joe to exist.


Now, I'm outta here...got a kid waitin' on me to ramble about with him.

Till tomorrow.

You are completely missing the point that little Joe will never miss pleasure if he doesn't exist. Neither can he suffer. But he will if he is born. How do you not see this? Again, did you sit in nothingness, waiting to be born, Henry? And if you were never born, would you grieve you hadn't been? No, you did not, and would not.

As to ethics, there is an imperative not to cause harm. But there is no ethical imperative to cause pleasure.

Lacewing wrote:

Dalek Prime wrote:I just care about people, perhaps too much

I've always sensed that about you...

Dalek Prime wrote:...you were born to serve others. You weren't born for your own desires. Do you recall sitting in the aether, wishing someone would fuck, so you could be born and stuff your face with ice cream?

Sounds like a possible scenario.

Hey, my trip has been full of crazy ass stuff, as well as kickass stuff... and it feels like a lifetime adventure. I think I prefer that entertainment over nothingness... which I'll go back to soon enough. The way I look at it, this is a game... and I'm trying to play it the best way I can (with all sorts of variables constantly popping up). I can be good at it or bad at it... but the entertainment continues, and the lows return to highs. You play games, right? Don't you get totally swept up in them to see what you can do? Isn't that a thrill? How is this (life) any different? Because we actually feel pain and suffering at times? That's just because it's the ULTIMATE game!!

Respectfully... your friend Lacewing.

Thanks Lace. Yes, as an existent, you would prefer something over nothing. But if you never were, you wouldn't know the difference, and wouldn't miss it. You also couldn't suffer.

Dalek Prime wrote:
Neither can he suffer. But he will if he is born.

Particularly if he comes into contact with you.

Harbal wrote:

Dalek Prime wrote:
Neither can he suffer. But he will if he is born.

Particularly if he comes into contact with you.

Do you have something of consequence to my thread to add? If not, go watch TV.

Dalek, yes, I see that you do care - perhaps too much about these needy universes.
But we can all rest assured, absolute control is on its way...
Hey, ho...

Better shape up those premises.