For the discussion of all things philosophical.
https://canzookia.com/
If you promise to play nicely they might keep you on as a pet.Dalek Prime wrote:As for me servicing conscious machines in the future? If they become so great, they can wipe their own silicon asses.
But you don't have any reason for your antinatalism, but if you did why would the same thing apply to a machine intelligence?Dalek Prime wrote:Really Hobbes? You're asking an antinatalist why it's unethical to create consciousness in machines, when we don't agree with creating more human consciousness? Same reasons apply.Hobbes' Choice wrote:Why do you say that?Dalek Prime wrote:UA, if higher consciousness leading to self-awareness ever could arise from a machine, we have an ethical responsibility to not create it.
Great. Now change my fucking litter, or I'll claw the couch and shit on it.Obvious Leo wrote:If you promise to play nicely they might keep you on as a pet.Dalek Prime wrote:As for me servicing conscious machines in the future? If they become so great, they can wipe their own silicon asses.
No. But "experiencing" requires an "experiencer" (...this "experiencer" being a physical substrate upon which experiencing happens)UniversalAlien wrote:Does Mind Require a Biological Body to be Conscious?
And how does this exempt computers or machines? What can you experience {besides a sense of self identity} that a machine of today could not also be programmed to experience? Emotions/feelings you say - I'm not sure I understand the logic ofRG1 wrote:No. But "experiencing" requires an "experiencer" (...this "experiencer" being a physical substrate upon which experiencing happens)UniversalAlien wrote:Does Mind Require a Biological Body to be Conscious?
Note: "mind" is just an 'experience', a thought/concept itself.
First of all, as like the “computer”, the “biological machine” (i.e. human) likewise does NOT possess a “mind” or “consciousness”. This is simply a myth.UniversalAlien wrote:And how does this exempt computers or machines?
Us human biological machines (aka “experiencers”) can experience thoughts, feelings and sensory awareness. Note: “mind” and “consciousness”, do not exist in reality, as these are just felt ‘experiences’ (thoughts/concepts).UniversalAlien wrote:What can you experience {besides a sense of self identity} that a machine of today could not also be programmed to experience?
How is the ‘experience’ of self-identity/awareness any different the ‘experience’ of any other self? There is nothing special/unique from the experience of “self” to the experience of another “self” (i.e. another entity/person).UniversalAlien wrote:The only thing I can see that prevents a non biological machine from being conscious is the self identity - And one day {and I would bet soon} someone will figure out a way to program that into the machine.
Interesting. I have to say, RG1, you are the first person on the forum who has given me something to ponder on the nature of 'mind', though consciousness is not such a bad label for the experience, as long as the subtleties are implicitly understood. Thank you for the post.RG1 wrote:First of all, as like the “computer”, the “biological machine” (i.e. human) likewise does NOT possess a “mind” or “consciousness”. This is simply a myth.UniversalAlien wrote:And how does this exempt computers or machines?
Us human biological machines (aka “experiencers”) can experience thoughts, feelings and sensory awareness. Note: “mind” and “consciousness”, do not exist in reality, as these are just felt ‘experiences’ (thoughts/concepts).UniversalAlien wrote:What can you experience {besides a sense of self identity} that a machine of today could not also be programmed to experience?
If I had to guess, “experiencing” is prior to the programming, possibly in the electrical (electron) interactions of the circuitry, similar to how the human neural/brain activity is responsible for the experiences that we humans feel.
How is the ‘experience’ of self-identity/awareness any different the ‘experience’ of any other self? There is nothing special/unique from the experience of “self” to the experience of another “self” (i.e. another entity/person).UniversalAlien wrote:The only thing I can see that prevents a non biological machine from being conscious is the self identity - And one day {and I would bet soon} someone will figure out a way to program that into the machine.
Whether we experience self or another self is no different, in that both are composed of the same experiences. For example, we hear a voice talking in the other room, and we become ‘aware’ of a “person/entity/self” in that other room. We hear a voice talking in our head, and we become ‘aware’ of a “person/entity/self” within, and then instantly proclaim "Hark, there is a me!"
This experience creates the illusionary concept of “mind”/"I"/“consciousness”. But in reality, we are just an 'experiencing' machine that auto-reacts accordingly. That is all. There are no “selfs”, minds, consciousness, or ghosts within!
Those are definitions I can live with JSS. I do however disagree with your computer prognostications.JSS wrote:Mind ≡ the functioning of a neural network or its equivalent.
Consciousness ≡ the faculty to remotely recognize the ambient environment.
There is nothing magic about them. They come in degrees and types, like intelligence. Most computers have a degree of them. Soon it will be them wondering if humans ever had consciousness or minds.
Technology is an opiate of governments and social engineers of every sort. They cannot stop themselves from converting all things into artificially created techno-interconnected-gadgetry, including all life. They couldn't stop the momentum they have begun even if they tried, which they are not. They are in fact still finding ways to push even harder. They lust to be gods, so they will not stop until they are stopped. And who exactly is going to do that when it is they who form the only opinions that persuade?Dalek Prime wrote:Those are definitions I can live with JSS. I do however disagree with your computer prognostications.JSS wrote:Mind ≡ the functioning of a neural network or its equivalent.
Consciousness ≡ the faculty to remotely recognize the ambient environment.
There is nothing magic about them. They come in degrees and types, like intelligence. Most computers have a degree of them. Soon it will be them wondering if humans ever had consciousness or minds.
They'll try, no doubt about that JSS.JSS wrote:Technology is an opiate of governments and social engineers of every sort. They cannot stop themselves from converting all things into artificially created techno-interconnected-gadgetry, including all life. They couldn't stop the momentum they have begun even if they tried, which they are not. They are in fact still finding ways to push even harder. They lust to be gods, so they will not stop until they are stopped. And who exactly is going to do that when it is they who form the only opinions that persuade?Dalek Prime wrote:Those are definitions I can live with JSS. I do however disagree with your computer prognostications.JSS wrote:Mind ≡ the functioning of a neural network or its equivalent.
Consciousness ≡ the faculty to remotely recognize the ambient environment.
There is nothing magic about them. They come in degrees and types, like intelligence. Most computers have a degree of them. Soon it will be them wondering if humans ever had consciousness or minds.
See whole article here:Where does the mind reside? It’s a question that’s occupied the best brains for thousands of years. Now, a patient who is self-aware – despite lacking three regions of the brain thought to be essential for self-awareness – demonstrates that the mind remains as elusive as ever.
The finding suggests that mental functions might not be tied to fixed brain regions. Instead, the mind might be more like a virtual machine running on distributed computers, with brain resources allocated in a flexible manner, says David Rudrauf at the University of Iowa in Iowa City, who led the study of the patient.
The mind is a control mechanism for a body. When you change the body, you inherently change the mind controlling it. Take out the hormone system of the body, and the mind vastly changes from what it was. Take out the temperature issue and the mind changes as well. Take out the blood pressure issue...UniversalAlien wrote:Don't believe they can put your 'mind' in a machine because....?????
More specifically it is a function of the brainJSS wrote:
The mind is a control mechanism for a body