Marriage For Everyone!

[Hobbes' Choice]

Last time I looked you had a boyfriend. Grats for coming out.

that was quite a while back

god high school was not that long ago but seems like a such long time ago

coming out was a bit weird

i mean when my bff and i became an open couple there were some people who were like "you came out? I did not know you were ever in!"

others were shocked

others tried to act normal and failed and acted real weird instead

A while back, yeah. That was when I was posting with a different handle. I decided that using my own name was a bad idea.

I hope things have not been too difficult in your neighbourhood. My son whose now 20 told me a couple of his friends managed to come-out when they were about 15-17 without ANY trouble at all. It makes me think that things are getting better generally, When I was that age in the mid 1970s, homsexuality was still an amusing subject for TV entertainers and jokes.
In the UK the big change was about the time Quentin Crisp had his story televised in "The Naked Civil Servant", played by John Hurt (Alien, Harry Potter etc.). It changed the way people think about gays in a very positive way. Things have been up and down since then, especially with AIDS, but the direction has been good in-spite of the resistance of the church who now have female vicars, and gay marriage.
If you can get hold of that TV prog you should watch it. It's a monument of socially aware TV. It covers a time when homosexuality was still illegal, as laws that criminalised it were only repealed in 1967. (in UK)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ymbgf0MDE8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xjLtXJBQ_Vo

[Hobbes' Choice]

Kayla,

I think what the 'inglorious one' was getting at is that he believes that 'Rome will fall' because of the 'evolution of homosexuals'...as in...'if human all become homosexuals, then there will be no more babies as the homosexual sex does not produce babies.'
.

This is the most idiotic thing for the week.
Society would thrive much better if we had fewer babies and more people willing to give unwanted babies a good home. I would imagine that gay couples looking to a child to adopt would score higher than average for intelligence. This is a win win.

We might also reflect that homosexuality, in the ancient world from which "Rome" (whatever that is) is supposedly derivative, thrived and seem to create no problems for many key Greeks, and Roman leaders over the years.
Rome's fall was an eventual response to the failure of the social fabric caused by the adoption of Christianity throughout the empire and the oppression and unhappiness that caused the pagan majority. According to Gibbon it was Christianity that caused the FALL.

[Kayla]

i know it has gotten better

but it seems that it has gotten better in the sense that its ok to be gay or lesbian as long as you dont 'look or act' gay or lesbian

girls who are not girly enough - and guys who are not manly enough - are still ostracized and it does become worse if they come out (and not all ungirly girls are lesbians and not all girly guys are gay)

and the new generation growing up is going to be different from their elders even here in the bible belt

our daughter's schoolmates and friends do not see her having two moms as anything especially noteworthy or bad - they are more surprised by us not being quite "old enough" to be her mom - we have had questions about that

[artisticsolution]

Kayla,

I think what the 'inglorious one' was getting at is that he believes that 'Rome will fall' because of the 'evolution of homosexuals'...as in...'if human all become homosexuals, then there will be no more babies as the homosexual sex does not produce babies.'
.

This is the most idiotic thing for the week.

I agree...did you read the rest of my quote? I hope you didn't mean to take this to mean I was with "yhe inglorious one'. As the way you quoted me here is out of context. ..but you might know that already. Just wondering if it was deliberate.

[Obvious Leo]

According to Gibbon it was Christianity that caused the FALL.

This is unquestionably true. The Romans were the epitome of religious tolerance before Constantine instituted Christianity as a state religion but everything went rapidly pear-shaped for their empire after that. Effectively the Roman church stole the empire from under the noses of the emperors.

[The Inglorious One]

Kayla,

I think what the 'inglorious one' was getting at is that he believes that 'Rome will fall' because of the 'evolution of homosexuals'...as in...'if human all become homosexuals, then there will be no more babies as the homosexual sex does not produce babies.'

This is the most idiotic thing for the week.

That's it? I thought it was the most idiotic thing for the year.

Adding one grain of sand to an existing pile of sand has little observable effect: the pile just gets bigger. But, eventually, a tipping-point is reached and adding one more grain of sand starts an avalanche with unpredictable results. The individual grains of sand reorganize themselves into an unpredictable pattern of stability.

The “gay” marriage thing is just one more grain of sand adding to the instability of an already unstable pile of sand, just like Christianity was to Rome. I'm not saying it's good or bad, but when the avalanche comes to pass — and it will — there is no telling where that particular grain will end up.

[Skip]

When that pile comes down, nobody will care where a few same-sex couples are. Finally, the bigots will have something else to focus on.

[The Inglorious One]

When that pile comes down, nobody will care where a few same-sex couples are. Finally, the bigots will have something else to focus on.

Maybe, maybe not. It's just as likely the "bigots" will have their way.

[Hobbes' Choice]

Kayla,

I think what the 'inglorious one' was getting at is that he believes that 'Rome will fall' because of the 'evolution of homosexuals'...as in...'if human all become homosexuals, then there will be no more babies as the homosexual sex does not produce babies.'
.

This is the most idiotic thing for the week.

I agree...did you read the rest of my quote? I hope you didn't mean to take this to mean I was with "yhe inglorious one'. As the way you quoted me here is out of context. ..but you might know that already. Just wondering if it was deliberate.

I was not attacking you if that's what you mean.

[Hobbes' Choice]

According to Gibbon it was Christianity that caused the FALL.

This is unquestionably true. The Romans were the epitome of religious tolerance before Constantine instituted Christianity as a state religion but everything went rapidly pear-shaped for their empire after that. Effectively the Roman church stole the empire from under the noses of the emperors.

Indeed, and the persecution of the followers of the older religions was catastrophic.

[Hobbes' Choice]

Kayla,

I think what the 'inglorious one' was getting at is that he believes that 'Rome will fall' because of the 'evolution of homosexuals'...as in...'if human all become homosexuals, then there will be no more babies as the homosexual sex does not produce babies.'

This is the most idiotic thing for the week.

That's it? I thought it was the most idiotic thing for the year.

Adding one grain of sand to an existing pile of sand has little observable effect: the pile just gets bigger. But, eventually, a tipping-point is reached and adding one more grain of sand starts an avalanche with unpredictable results. The individual grains of sand reorganize themselves into an unpredictable pattern of stability.

The “gay” marriage thing is just one more grain of sand adding to the instability of an already unstable pile of sand, just like Christianity was to Rome. I'm not saying it's good or bad, but when the avalanche comes to pass — and it will — there is no telling where that particular grain will end up.

Your analogy is shite.
A slippery slope is a species of fallacy.
Christianity was a move to homogenise and persecute: that's stacking the grains of sand end on end.
There is nothing more unstable than conservatism. Society is a process. You can only prevent change with violence. So get off your bigoted horse, else someone is going to look more closely at you, and find some reason to persecute what YOU do.

[Obvious Leo]

Society is a process.

More precisely society is an evolutionary process and societies which cannot evolve are societies which are doomed to fail. This make the US doubly vulnerable because all theocracies are intrinsically creationist in the design of their social structures. In addition to this the US model carries the burden of a hard-wired and inflexible constitution which is locked into an 18th century time warp by rewarding privilege.

[The Inglorious One]

Society is a process.

More precisely society is an evolutionary process and societies which cannot evolve are societies which are doomed to fail.

True, but not every mutation is conducive to a higher or more civilized society.

Civilizations are unstable because they are not innate in the individual grains of sand. Civilization must be nurtured by the combined contributions of science, morality, and religion. Civilizations come and go, but science, morality, and religion always survive the crash. Only time will tell whether "gay" marriage is a step in the right direction. Personally, I don't think it is; it's just too destabilizing.

[artisticsolution]

This is the most idiotic thing for the week.

Okay...because I wasn't talking about 'the fall of Rome' per se, I was trying to explain/ translate what inglorious really means.

It is common knowledge in America that conservatives believe that Homosexuality will lead to the 'fall of the usa'. Because they believe God won't protect the usa anymore since we made same sex marriage legal.

Conservatives like inglorious really believe liberal ideals are going to cause the usa to fall out of God's good graces and when that happens he will allow our demise by the evil forces that exist in the world.

I do not think this way...I am just letting you know where inglorious is coming from.

[The Inglorious One]

Okay...because I wasn't talking about 'the fall of Rome' per se, I was trying to explain/ translate what inglorious really means.

It is common knowledge in America that conservatives believe that Homosexuality will lead to the 'fall of the usa'. Because they believe God won't protect the usa anymore since we made same sex marriage legal.

Conservatives like inglorious really believe liberal ideals are going to cause the usa to fall out of God's good graces and when that happens he will allow our demise by the evil forces that exist in the world.

I do not think this way...I am just letting you know where inglorious is coming from.

Just when you think a person can't make a more idiotic statement, he comes along and outdoes himself.