Philosophy Now Forum

Melchior wrote:

henry quirk wrote:Missing the point, Hobbe's.

If Christians are right then I'm wrong, yes?

If Christian theology is right, then -- as an atheist -- I'm gonna burn, yes?

That is: if god exists, and if god is the Christian god, then all my assertions of 'no god, no heaven, no hell' mean diddly squat. God would judge me and sentence me and, as I'm an atheist, that means I burn.

‘If’, Hobbes…’if’.

Speaking of burning,

Just watch that you don't burn too much oil. By which I mean more than 1 qt per 1000 miles.

Wooo, 1 qt per 1000 miles isn't too much? That's an oil addicted doohickey Mel!

henry quirk wrote:Missing the point, Hobbe.

If Christians are right then I'm wrong, yes?

If Christian theology is right, then -- as an atheist -- I'm gonna burn, yes?

That is: if god exists, and if god is the Christian god, then all my assertions of 'no god, no heaven, no hell' mean diddly squat. God would judge me and sentence me and, as I'm an atheist, that means I burn.

'If', Hobbe...'if'.

Does not mean you chose Hell. God chooses hell, if the Christians are right.
If I get my call-up papers from the army, does not mean I chose to sign-up.

Melchior wrote:My Passat GLX V6 uses about 1 quart per 2000 miles. It has 130K miles on it, and it is well taken care of. Just top it off and keep track of how much is being consumed. Up to 1 qt per 1000 miles is considered within spec. Only if it is in excess of that should you be concerned.

That's fairly amazing to have that much oil lost over such a short distance. Still, we had a Passat a few years and loved it, so I have no good reason to doubt VW. Maybe burning a bit of oil here and then is actually good for a car?

David Handeye wrote:

Melchior wrote:

henry quirk wrote:Missing the point, Hobbe's.

If Christians are right then I'm wrong, yes?

If Christian theology is right, then -- as an atheist -- I'm gonna burn, yes?

That is: if god exists, and if god is the Christian god, then all my assertions of 'no god, no heaven, no hell' mean diddly squat. God would judge me and sentence me and, as I'm an atheist, that means I burn.

‘If’, Hobbes…’if’.

Speaking of burning,

Just watch that you don't burn too much oil. By which I mean more than 1 qt per 1000 miles.

Wooo, 1 qt per 1000 miles isn't too much? That's an oil addicted doohickey Mel!

My car has used less that a pint in 10,000 miles.

ReliStuPhD wrote:

Melchior wrote:My Passat GLX V6 uses about 1 quart per 2000 miles. It has 130K miles on it, and it is well taken care of. Just top it off and keep track of how much is being consumed. Up to 1 qt per 1000 miles is considered within spec. Only if it is in excess of that should you be concerned.

That's fairly amazing to have that much oil lost over such a short distance. Still, we had a Passat a few years and loved it, so I have no good reason to doubt VW. Maybe burning a bit of oil here and then is actually good for a car?

Yes, European engines do consume oil as a method of improving the lubrication.

Melchior wrote:Yes, European engines do consume oil as a method of improving the lubrication.

Adding that to the long list of Things I Learned on the Internet.

ReliStuPhD wrote:

Melchior wrote:Yes, European engines do consume oil as a method of improving the lubrication.

Adding that to the long list of Things I Learned on the Internet.

http://www.vw-resource.com/burning_oil.html

"If I get my call-up papers from the army, does not mean I chose to sign-up."

I get it now...agreed.

Hobbes' Choice wrote:

David Handeye wrote:

Melchior wrote: Speaking of burning,

Just watch that you don't burn too much oil. By which I mean more than 1 qt per 1000 miles.

Wooo, 1 qt per 1000 miles isn't too much? That's an oil addicted doohickey Mel!

My car has used less that a pint in 10,000 miles.

Good average.
Do you have miles unit in U.K.? Not metric?

Melchior wrote:http://www.vw-resource.com/burning_oil.html

Interesting read. Thanks!

henry quirk wrote:"If I get my call-up papers from the army, does not mean I chose to sign-up."

I get it now...agreed.

On the flip side, if you're told that filling out Form A-7163 will exempt you from the draft, but you refuse to sign it because "The draft will never happen," have you volunteered should you be wrong and the draft kicks in? At least that's how I understand this particular Christian position. The atheist is warned that the draft is coming, but chooses to believe that it's a lie to scare them. The analogy's not perfect, but that seems to be the foundation for the "choosing Hell" angle. As far as I can tell, the Christians who hold this idea aren't saying the atheist is caught unawares, but that the atheist has had the consequences spelled out clearly and has been told repeatedly that this isn't some fantasy, but the real deal. If they're right, it's hard for me to see how the atheist can make a solid case that the haven't chosen that particular set of consequences, even if they appear unfair.

Of course, for my part, I simply don't hold to that view of God. I'm just interested in chasing down the implications if it's the correct view. I think it's the "we warned you constantly that this was coming" element that adds weight to the choice angle. Sort of like me warning my kids over and over that steaming food burns the roof of their mouth. Do they choose a burnt mouth if they ignore my warnings? I guess I'm still on the fence on this one.

David Handeye wrote:

Hobbes' Choice wrote:

David Handeye wrote: Wooo, 1 qt per 1000 miles isn't too much? That's an oil addicted doohickey Mel!

My car has used less that a pint in 10,000 miles.

Good average.
Do you have miles unit in U.K.? Not metric?

(You know miles, oz, lbs, pints, and so on began in Britain?)

Yes miles. We've adopted Litres of petrol instead of gallons; Kg instead of lbs. But somethings are too sacred. Cars drive in miles, and Mph, and we still drink pints. And I'm not talking about gay US pints with only 16oz. I'm taking about he full 20oz pints.
I was once told that the reduced US pint was due to cheating. The US used to buy British beer in Imperial gallons (8 pints) but divide up the 160oz into 10 US pints to make a larger profit.

Hobbes' Choice wrote: (You know miles, oz, lbs, pints, and so on began in Britain?)

Yes miles. We've adopted Litres of petrol instead of gallons; Kg instead of lbs. But somethings are too sacred. Cars drive in miles, and Mph, and we still drink pints. And I'm not talking about gay US pints with only 16oz. I'm taking about he full 20oz pints.
I was once told that the reduced US pint was due to cheating. The US used to buy British beer in Imperial gallons (8 pints) but divide up the 160oz into 10 US pints to make a larger profit.

Thanks a lot Hobbes. I use to watch Top Gear but I never noticed that difference.

My personal take...

I'm well aware what the various strains of Christianity promise (and threaten) as a consequence of a choice made.

And: I'm an *atheist (or apatheist, or hard-ass agnostic, or non-theist... ).

So: at least when it comes to me, with eyes wide open, if the Christians are right, I'm gonna burn.

Now: on the way down, with the flames of Hell gettin' closer and closer, I might frantically argue with god (or his proxy [Peter, at the Pearly Gate, right?]) that 'it really wasn't much of a choice, now was it? Yeah, I'm free to choose, Salvation under His Benevolent Thumb or Damnation with The Other Guy's Pitchfork up my bum...a **false choice!'

Here's the thing: when you’re King, it doesn't matter if your subject is right or not (cuz you are King, you have the power and the say-so, and to hell with the cogency of the 'little people').









*can't say there's any real philosophy in my atheism...religion never made sense to me (still doesn’t)...never has any use or hunger for it...Reality seems to tick along nicely without an apparent moral dimension or Arbiter...my atheism, then, is just a natural thing for me: not particularly refined and not set in concrete...when god decides to treat me to coffee, I'll believe in him...

**Hobbe's Choice...HA!

"Sort of like me warning my kids over and over that steaming food burns the roof of their mouth."

Consider: I might very well let my kid burn his mouth cuz pain is a great teacher and the pain is temporary.

I would never let him jump offa the roof of the house cuz overkill! and (perhaps) irrevocable damage (or death).

So: I violate his will on regular basis when the stakes are too high.

Christian Hell is overkill! and irrevocable, and easily avoided if god would get up offa his great big keister and 'get involved'.

Guess the Christian god just doesn't love us enough...