Philosophy Now Forum

thedoc wrote:I said you wouldn't like the answer.

Is that a yes, doc?

Ned wrote:

thedoc wrote: Also they are not necessarily factual, they are a matter of belief.

So you hold belief in logically contradictory statements about your 'god'.

That's what I thought.

You seem to think that belief in God has to be logical, and that is your big mistake. Simply put, belief in God does not fit into your mind, you've closed your mind to the thought.

It´s not a good one but let me offer it anyway:

If God is omnipotent he can do contradictory things too.
Otherwise he would not be omnipotent.

Ned wrote:

thedoc wrote:I said you wouldn't like the answer.

Is that a yes, doc?

Yes they are not contradictions, except in your mind, but then perhaps it's your mind that is the contradiction.

thedoc wrote:
You seem to think that belief in God has to be logical, and that is your big mistake.

I seem to think that you aught to be logical!

Or, do you honestly admit that you are not logical?

That would be refreshing.

duszek wrote:It´s not a good one but let me offer it anyway:

If God is omnipotent he can do contradictory things too.
Otherwise he would not be omnipotent.

Please continue, I'd like to see what kind of trap you're trying to set.

thedoc wrote:Yes they are not contradictions, except in your mind, but then perhaps it's your mind that is the contradiction.

So, explain it to me how they are NOT contradictions.

Start with the premises:

1./ If god is omnipotent....

2./ If god is omniscient...

Ned wrote:

thedoc wrote:
You seem to think that belief in God has to be logical, and that is your big mistake.

I seem to think that you aught to be logical!

Or, do you honestly admit that you are not logical?

That would be refreshing.

I don't presume to know the mind of God. I try to be logical about logical things, but everything in this world is not logical and does not follow human expectations.

thedoc wrote:everything in this world is not logical and does not follow human expectations.

OK, making progress. Sounds like an admission of not being logical.

Give me examples, from this world, where logic fails.

I am all ears!

thedoc wrote:

duszek wrote:It´s not a good one but let me offer it anyway:

If God is omnipotent he can do contradictory things too.
Otherwise he would not be omnipotent.

Please continue, I'd like to see what kind of trap you're trying to set.

I have nothing else to continue with, that´s it.

It´s contradictory to be omniscient and to be omnipotent, yes, yes. But God can do both exactly because He is omnipotent. He can do contradictory things.

duszek wrote:But God can do both exactly because He is omnipotent. He can do contradictory things.

Like create a stone so heavy that even 'he' can't lift it up?

He can create a stone so heavy that He cannot lift it up and yet He can lift it because he is omnipotent !

God can even lift a stone that is too heavy for Him.

duszek wrote:He can create a stone so heavy that He cannot lift it up and yet He can lift it because he is omnipotent !

And how, pray, tell me, he can do both?

We are in never-never land now -- the periphery of human consciousness and the deep labyrinths of the mind!

If God is omnipotent can He abandone His omnipotency ?

Probably yes, but we assume that He is not going to do it.

This particular logical inconsistency is unlikely to trouble anyone under ten years of age. Children are not concerned with huge concepts like omni and eternal; they're too busy learning to navigate the rapids of grade-school. This kind of questioning kicks in sometime during adolescence - and even then, it's more an intellectual exercise than a real concern....

.... unless that child is spiritually inclined and has been raised in an environment 'sheltered' from the intrusions of other modes of thought. In this case, when she comes to ask these inevitable questions, and is told these ridiculously inept answers - or no answers, or is reprimanded, even punished for asking - that's when the harm is done.

The correct answer is: The people who wrote the books and told the stories never really met God. They had an idea that God was the greatest, mightiest, wisest, most potent entity in the universe, so they used the biggest words they could find to describe Him. Really, we don't know: no two people have the exact same idea about God. But the authority figure (pastor, teacher, parent) who is asked this question is usually ashamed to show ignorance.... about something that nobody alive can help being ignorant about!