Philosophy Now Forum

David Handeye wrote:yes that's the point! damned unions, we are in deepest shit for the damned italian unions of shit. damn

You think the unions should be involved with welfare policy?

I think Italy is more in shit through corruption and organised crime more than anything else.

Arising_uk wrote:

David Handeye wrote:yes that's the point! damned unions, we are in deepest shit for the damned italian unions of shit. damn

You think the unions should be involved with welfare policy?

I think Italy is more in shit through corruption and organised crime more than anything else.

Labor, Arising, we're talking about labor. And yes, in Italy labor unions ARE involved with welfare, and this is not good, because you may be hired for six months and then you have all the benefits you want. And I, employer, have to pay taxes to your welfare

David Handeye wrote:

Dalek Prime wrote: And who is worth only $10 an hour Bob?

I am. I guess you never were an employer. Sometimes I am forced to work for 10 € per hour, in other jobs I work for 40 € per hour, and I balance out. This is business, today.

I am an employer. Software.

Dalek Prime wrote:

David Handeye wrote:

Dalek Prime wrote: And who is worth only $10 an hour Bob?

I am. I guess you never were an employer. Sometimes I am forced to work for 10 € per hour, in other jobs I work for 40 € per hour, and I balance out. This is business, today.

I am an employer. Software.

so you never worked for less than you thought you should have being paid? Lucky you

David Handeye wrote: so you never worked for less than you thought you should have being paid? Lucky you

Of course I have, when I was younger. And no, not lucky me. I didnt accept the status quo as you have, and taught myself a skill that would employ me for a better living, and went out on my own. I took risk.

Dalek Prime wrote:

David Handeye wrote: so you never worked for less than you thought you should have being paid? Lucky you

Of course I have, when I was younger. And no, not lucky me. I didnt accept the status quo as you have, and taught myself a skill that would employ me for a better living, and went out on my own. I took risk.

Could you tell me what skill?

David Handeye wrote:

Dalek Prime wrote:

David Handeye wrote: so you never worked for less than you thought you should have being paid? Lucky you

Of course I have, when I was younger. And no, not lucky me. I didnt accept the status quo as you have, and taught myself a skill that would employ me for a better living, and went out on my own. I took risk.

Could you tell me what skill?

Programming. System analysis. Design of software. I am in custom software for local clients. I believe I listed my occupation in my profile.

Originally, I was self-taught. Had a knack for it I didn't know of until I had to fix my first computer, as I couldn't contact someone who could. As I became more proficient, I began consulting for a mid-size company, and grew from there. I handed day-to-day over to a friend while I went back to school to fill in what I perceived to be gaps in my knowledge. There weren't enough to warrant school, so I went back to work, and never looked back.

Dalek Prime wrote:

David Handeye wrote: Could you tell me what skill?

Programming. System analysis. Design of software. I am in custom software for local clients. I believe I listed my occupation in my profile.

Ok, thank you Dalek. I hadn't seen your profile.

David Handeye wrote:

Dalek Prime wrote:

David Handeye wrote: Could you tell me what skill?

Programming. System analysis. Design of software. I am in custom software for local clients. I believe I listed my occupation in my profile.

Ok, thank you Dalek. I hadn't seen your profile.

No problem Dave. Most don't list, so that's understandable.

(You're move at the chess table, btw. )

David Handeye wrote:Labor, Arising, we're talking about labor. And yes, in Italy labor unions ARE involved with welfare, and this is not good, because you may be hired for six months and then you have all the benefits you want. ...

For how long?

How are your unions involved in the welfare system? As normally this is a governmental function.

And I, employer, have to pay taxes to your welfare

Well, the workers pay their taxes for the welfare system as well, do you mean corporation tax or that you have to pay a specific tax for the welfare system?

I honestly do not know about the economic reality of Italy. However, here in the US, wealth is being stolen from the middle class and given to the top 1%. 400 individual Americans own half the wealth in the US!
Even conservatives are now talking about wealth disparity!

I like Bernie because he is a populist and goes against the status quo

The USA in the past several decades and especially during the 1980's under the Reagan administration has become a corporate oligarchy. Their is so much stigma against social safety nets because it's "socialism" and other regulations that the economic laws of the 1930's that were meant to stop business corruption and endless poverty were rolled back to allow business to have a libertarian free for all in the economy. It's like the most extreme application of lassiez faire capitalism ever!

Low and behold just years after we we "de-regulated" the laws that protects america's here comes Enron and World Com with corporate scandals, Lehmen bros and HSBC and other numerous scandals, and the ever persistent practice of giving high ranking executive a six figure salary even when their company is failing and taking loans from Uncle Sam. The end result is a lack of purchasing power among middle class and college grads (because of student loan inflation) which in turn hurts the economy....all so that the wealthy 1% can buy their 4th speed boat and 5th mansion in Florida

Arising_uk wrote:

David Handeye wrote:Labor, Arising, we're talking about labor. And yes, in Italy labor unions ARE involved with welfare, and this is not good, because you may be hired for six months and then you have all the benefits you want. ...

For how long?

How are your unions involved in the welfare system? As normally this is a governmental function.

And I, employer, have to pay taxes to your welfare

Well, the workers pay their taxes for the welfare system as well, do you mean corporation tax or that you have to pay a specific tax for the welfare system?

Ok, let's start; first of all, in Italy there are many many benefits you can get, I don't know the English term for them, in Italian they're called "ammortizzatori sociali". This is due to the power of labor unions, for they actually ARE political parties. CGIL and FIOM is just PD, CISL and UIL are the tories party, COBAS is liberal party. CIA, CNA and ConfCommercio are whighs party. If you're a member of a labor union you are properly member of a political party. Chiefs and managers of labor unions sit in the Italian Parliament and they make laws. Now, you ask how long? It depends. It depends on how old you are: if you are less than 50 you get first the "disoccupation indennity", which lasts for 1 year and 1 month. After the disoccupation indennity you get the "mobility indennity", which lasts for further 4 months. If you are more than 50, the disoccupation indennity lasts for 2 years and 2 months; then, the mobility indennity lasts for further 8 months. Again, if you have children, however old you are, and however old your children are, you get, we call them, the family cheques, which start from 250 € per child per month. Again, if your wife is unemployed, we say she's on your charge, you get another benefit of 250 € per month. Now, the disoccupation indennity amount is the 80% of your last payroll, the mobility indennity is the 60% of your last payroll. Now, listen to me very carefully, this is the most unbelievable part: if, if, IF, just one month before your disoccupation indennity ends, you may, get hired, by whoever employer, for just one month, it doesn't matter if you work or don't work, and aftet that month you are fired, you can restart from the beginning. And then the mobility indennity is cumulative, we say, that is it stops, and then you get 4 months plus other 4 months, or 8 plus 8 months. All is free taxes, free sanity, health care, and and and and....
Tell me how the hell we should go on...

.


Sounds like government for the people by the people.

Thank your lucky stars your government doesn't spend much money on rebuilding other countries that they've destroyed.

Thank your lucky stars your government doesn't put profit above people.

Thank your lucky stars your government doesn't run an $18,000,000,000,000.00 debt.






.

no lucky stars here, Bill