Philosophy Now Forum

Dalek Prime wrote:Not breeding does not equate to individual suicide. ...

Didn't say it did, said that if one views existence and non-existence in the way you describe then logically one should choose non-existence.

And of course a living being will want to stay in existence. We all fear death. Suicide forces one to overcome immense programming to survive.

But it'd be the selfless and altruistic choice?

Now, you asked what the logical conclusion of his book is. It is to consider the ethical implications of procreating. Having said that, I won't try to replace Cliffs Notes.

If the ethical implications are based upon his assigning values to non-existence then I find it a fruitless point.

Arising_uk wrote:

Dalek Prime wrote:Not breeding does not equate to individual suicide. ...

Didn't say it did, said that if one views existence and non-existence in the way you describe then logically one should choose non-existence.

And of course a living being will want to stay in existence. We all fear death. Suicide forces one to overcome immense programming to survive.

But it'd be the selfless and altruistic choice?

Now, you asked what the logical conclusion of his book is. It is to consider the ethical implications of procreating. Having said that, I won't try to replace Cliffs Notes.

If the ethical implications are based upon his assigning values to non-existence then I find it a fruitless point.

I can't choose non-existence, idjit. That choice was made by my parents. I was left with the choice of life or death, which is not the same choice. There is no true free disposal in life, and you know this. Would you give the same counseling to your own kids, you hypocrite?

As for fruitless points, I'll agree on that. This discussion is bearing no fruit.

Dalek Prime wrote:I can't choose non-existence, idjit.

Course you can, die now and you will be non-existent.

That choice was made by my parents. I was left with the choice of life or death, which is not the same choice.

What do you think happens after you die?

There is no true free disposal in life, and you know this. ...

It's about the only thing that is free.

Would you give the same counseling to your own kids, you hypocrite?

My kids are free to dispose of their lives as they feel fit.

I'm not here to counsel you but to discuss your philosophical stance.

As for fruitless points, I'll agree on that. This discussion is bearing no fruit.

What fruit did you expect?

Dalek Prime wrote:I can't choose non-existence, idjit.

Course you can, die now and you will be non-existent.

Lead on, Macduff!

That choice was made by my parents. I was left with the choice of life or death, which is not the same choice.

What do you think happens after you die?

Fill me in when you get there, will ya? I'll wait by the phone...

There is no true free disposal in life, and you know this. ...

It's about the only thing that is free.

You pay for sex with your wife?

Would you give the same counseling to your own kids, you hypocrite?

My kids are free to dispose of their lives as they feel fit.

Ah.... No wonder she makes you pay for sex... Go tell your kids to off themselves. Tell me and your wife how that conversation goes, please.

I'm not here to counsel you but to discuss your philosophical stance.

I'd discuss it if you'd read something about it first. I even sent you the book, fer chrissakes. I'm not here to teach you. Besides, I would swear you just counseled me to off myself....

As for fruitless points, I'll agree on that. This discussion is bearing no fruit.

What fruit did you expect?

Apples.... Or peaches... Oh, heck, I'm not picky.

I'm beginning to understand why Melchior's posts are cranky.... Melchior, I'm going to start channeling your spirit.

Btw, I think this thread should be under ethics or metaphysics.... IMHO...

Double post... Second of the night... Sigh...

Dalek Prime wrote:Lead on, Macduff!

Why would I? As I'm not the one who thinks non-existence has value.

Fill me in when you get there, will ya? I'll wait by the phone...

No need I can tell you now, life goes on without you and in my case my kids go on without me.

You pay for sex with your wife?

Only when it's bad but you are the one who said there is no free disposal?

Ah.... No wonder she makes you pay for sex... Go tell your kids to off themselves. Tell me and your wife how that conversation goes, please.

Nope, if my kids decide to value non-existence more than existence then there is little I can do but if they come to me with the argument that non-existence is more valuable than existence I'll point out to them that logically that means they should kill themselves, after of course I've pointed-out that you cannot assign a value to a non-existent thing.

I'd discuss it if you'd read something about it first. I even sent you the book, fer chrissakes. ...

I got a 404 error and with a Russian link to boot.

I'm not here to teach you.

Why send me a book link then?

I thought you were here to discuss your interpretation of someone's book.

Besides, I would swear you just counseled me to off myself....

Nope, I pointed out that if you value non-existence above existence and claim that altruism is your motivating force then logically you should become non-existent.

Apples.... Or peaches... Oh, heck, I'm not picky.

Do non-existent apples and peaches have the same value as existent ones?

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In the past people would procreate to carry-on their genetic lineage; their ethnicity, their nationality.


Now ethnicity does not matter. Progressive individuals are actively part of a global individual. We are ALL ethnicity. We are not connected to one country - our country of birth.

We are fellow human beings. Not black. Not white. Not just Irish. Not just Jamaican...we increasingly realize we are ALL people.


At times, I believe we should all be spayed or neutered sometime in our early adolescence.


Sometimes I believe that in the immediate near future ALL human life should be cloned in a laboratory. Then communally raised.



...I think I am more clear headed in these times.


Children shouldn't be raised to be selfish. Thus they should not start out by being conceived in a completely selfish environment buy two selfish people.




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