psychology of Young Earth Creationists

[Arising_uk]

Is Baraminology subject to the scientific method? Is it an empirically testable theory?

From what I read its what Biology was once before Chemistry and Genetics, a taxonomy but one not based upon observation but by religious dogma.

[Ginkgo]

Is Baraminology subject to the scientific method? Is it an empirically testable theory?

From what I read its what Biology was once before Chemistry and Genetics, a taxonomy but one not based upon observation but by religious dogma.

Could be. However, I do remember Mendel's experiments with peas was conducted using careful observations and recording methods long before the discovery of the genetic mechanisms involved in heredity. Maybe, he was the exception rather than the rule.

[Arising_uk]

Could be. However, I do remember Mendel's experiments with peas was conducted using careful observations and recording methods long before the discovery of the genetic mechanisms involved in heredity. Maybe, he was the exception rather than the rule.

I've already said to jinx that not all religionists are anti-evolutionist and that the religious have played a major part in the development of the theory and that the Catholic Church appears to have no issue with it. Maybe I should have been more precise and said the dogma of whatever branch of American Protestant Evangelism it is that jinx and these Baraminologists come from that drives their mistaken attempt at returning Biology to a taxonomy.

[reasonvemotion]

How eurocentric of you.

Where do China and the Mongols, et al fit into this 'prediction'?

China and the Mongols have never been a world dominating power. Rome was the last of the world dominating powers. Napoleon tried to dominate and so did Hitler, Japan tried to dominate Asia and failed and Europe will never be united. There will not be another country that will dominate the world.

[rantal]

I think you wil find the Mogol empire was far bigger than Romes

all the best, rantal

[rantal]

Oops I mean Mongol empire

all the best, rantal

[reasonvemotion]

Quote:

How eurocentric of you.

Where do China and the Mongols, et al fit into this 'prediction'?

In a study of history, it appears that many of the great civilizations that people thought would have appeared in prophecy emerged after the great empires of this prophecy and during the reign of Rome when the prophecy says that the kingdoms will be divided. The few civilizations that began to emerge during the Greek period, were local, unorganized and tribal. China was mostly organized after 221 BC. The Aztecs (100-650 AD) and the native American Hopewell culture emerged after Christ (100-400AD) and the Olmecs before (1200-400BC). The Vikings and most of Europe and Russia were Barbarians. The height of the Mayan civilization was 250-900AD and they first met Christians in 1519. None of these controlled the Jews or the Christians and most emerged after Christ.
The Ottomans (1300-1922) ruled the Jews after they lost preeminence to the Christians as the people of the covenant.

[Kuznetzova]

Radiometric dating results give old ages for recent rock, so it cannot accurately "know" the age of rocks. Also, the finding of carbon-14 in coal and diamonds means that these deposits must be less than 100,000 years old, indicating insufficient time for supposed evolution.

This can be seen in geological and fossil evidence and is consistent with a catastrophic flood.

The link I gave to you does not mention radiometric dating methods of rocks AT ALL, ANYWHERE. Which means you just shot back a canned response. You neither followed the link nor did you read it. Consequently, your response to that link does not even fit the text that is contained there. I am not letting you run away and dodge either, so I will include the link a second time. Everyone on this forum will now see that your canned response is unrelated to the material that I linked to you.

viewtopic.php?f=11&t=10330

The assertion stands strong and unassailed by anything you have posted on this forum: The continent of antarctica is at least 800,000 years old.

Give me some evidence to substantiate your claim of absolutely false.

The Biblical Flood with Noah's ark refers to the extinction event that corresponds to the boundary between the cretaceous and our current geological period. But there are multiple extinction events in the fossil record, many of which are far more severe than the one that finished the dinosaurs. The extinction event, at the boundary between the permian and the triassic, was so severe that it forms a black bar in rock layers, where there is no sign of fossils for several million years. This boundary is easily visible to the human eye, and is the first thing young geologists notice. It is impossible to miss it.

The following graph shows a history of mass extinctions, as measured by the loss of diversity in animal and plant genera. (The plural of "genus"). This graph was built from the fossil record directly. Your adherence to a young earth is completely in opposition to tangible, physical evidence possessed by various sciences.

[Kuznetzova]

YEC uses Genesis as the staring point. Neo-darwinian 'evolution' uses 'evolution did it' by the height of blind ignorant faith is its starting point. Im sorry i cant go any further. GG. Cya round. 'Evolution' wins i lose. Can not be bothered. Too much propaganda on t.v. People are retards. Cya.

The basis of evolution is not blindness, ignorance, nor faith. I responded directly to this claim earlier and you have conveniently removed yourself from the conversation. You have made no attempt to respond to my posts.

Evolution by natural selection is a real scientific theory formed after 30 years of collecting evidence in the wild. It also extrapolated on evidence collected by Carolus Linnaeus. Evolution is supported by evidence in existing organisms alive today, but gains even more support from the fossil record. Being a scientific theory, it contains both explanatory and predictive powers. It is also falsifiable and I have explained to you explicitly how to do that. In 150 years, the orthodox theory has been united harmoniously with two other branches of science, first with Mendelian genetics, and secondly with modern genetics. These are referred to as the First and Second Darwinian Syntheses. That is to say, the theory of Natural Selection has been corroborated by separated disciplines. In the words of National Geographic magazine:

Was Darwin wrong? NO. The evidence for evolution is overwhelming.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modern_evo ... _synthesis

[reasonvemotion]

If I wanted to present evidence of a flood from a Creationist's view point, I just have to Google and would have a multitude of reasons for and against in every geological, biological, biblical, archaeological, scientifical or nonsensical point of view.

I could match you article for article and this could go on indefinitely.

So I say, from a different point of view, that there are also sources of Flood stories from regions around the world. In most of the stories there are constant features such as the saving in a vessel of a remnant group of people. The Greek word for flood, "kataklysmos", is only used to describe Noah's flood. This indicates that it was vastly different from any other flood. (II Peter 2:5). The Hebrew word for flood "mabbul" only refers to Noah's flood (Gen 7:10)

What has not been mentioned is faith.

"To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them." Isaiah 8:20

I wonder at your choice of Avatar Kuznetzova.

[Ginkgo]

If I wanted to present evidence of a flood from a Creationist's view point, I just have to Google and would have a multitude of reasons for and against in every geological, biological, biblical, archaeological, scientifical or nonsensical point of view.

I could match you article for article and this could go on indefinitely.

So I say, from a different point of view, that there are also sources of Flood stories from regions around the world. In most of the stories there are constant features such as the saving in a vessel of a remnant group of people. The Greek word for flood, "kataklysmos", is only used to describe Noah's flood. This indicates that it was vastly different from any other flood. (II Peter 2:5). The Hebrew word for flood "mabbul" only refers to Noah's flood (Gen 7:10)

What has not been mentioned is faith.

"To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them." Isaiah 8:20

I wonder at your choice of Avatar Kuznetzova.

I think Kuznetzova is not denying the Genesis flood - rather, it is the case, there is no physical evidence from the flood that supports a mass extinction.

At least that's what I think he is saying.

[Arising_uk]

In a study of history, it appears that many of the great civilizations that people thought would have appeared in prophecy emerged after the great empires of this prophecy and during the reign of Rome when the prophecy says that the kingdoms will be divided. The few civilizations that began to emerge during the Greek period, were local, unorganized and tribal. China was mostly organized after 221 BC. The Aztecs (100-650 AD) and the native American Hopewell culture emerged after Christ (100-400AD) and the Olmecs before (1200-400BC). The Vikings and most of Europe and Russia were Barbarians. The height of the Mayan civilization was 250-900AD and they first met Christians in 1519. None of these controlled the Jews or the Christians and most emerged after Christ.
The Ottomans (1300-1922) ruled the Jews after they lost preeminence to the Christians as the people of the covenant.

Take a look at a map of the Mongol Empire. Vast, Wiki says it's the largest contiguous Empire that's ever been. Its was about to sweep into what we'd call 'Western Europe' and the rest of the 'Middle East' today, but the Great Khan died and their succession system meant all Khans had to travel all the way back to China to hold elections and it looks like in-fighting distracted them. The Golden Horde killed and sacked many Christians and their countries but were they predicted in the OT Bible or the Jewish works? Nice thing about this Empire, it was very nearly a meritocracy for its subjects.

Having said this I do agree that its unlikely a nation will ever dominate in the way they used to as it looks like the future is either religion(again!) or the transnational corporations and capitalism. Still, China could prove us wrong, 1.3 billion organised party members is nothing to be sniffed at. Although America shows that technology still rules but the Chinese will be catching-up fast now they've seen the US in action. Lets hope they keep to their normal policy of non-interference in countries other than those they see as their buffer satellites.

[Arising_uk]

If I wanted to present evidence of a flood from a Creationist's view point, I just have to Google and would have a multitude of reasons for and against in every geological, biological, biblical, archaeological, scientifical or nonsensical point of view.

I could match you article for article and this could go on indefinitely.

So I say, from a different point of view, that there are also sources of Flood stories from regions around the world. In most of the stories there are constant features such as the saving in a vessel of a remnant group of people. The Greek word for flood, "kataklysmos", is only used to describe Noah's flood. This indicates that it was vastly different from any other flood. (II Peter 2:5). The Hebrew word for flood "mabbul" only refers to Noah's flood (Gen 7:10)

What has not been mentioned is faith.

"To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them." Isaiah 8:20

I wonder at your choice of Avatar Kuznetzova.

Why does this flood of Noah's seem to closely resemble Gilgamesh's?

[reasonvemotion]

Can you give more detail?

[tillingborn]

Why does this flood of Noah's seem to closely resemble Gilgamesh's?

Wotcher Arising
My favourite story about flood myths is that they are ancestral yarns about the end off the last ice age, when either the straits of Gibraltar or the Bosphoros where breached by melt water from the receding ice caps. 40 days later, there was a Mediterranean or Black Sea. Then again that was before the world was created according to some.