Philosophy Now Forum

Finally! I score one itsy-bitsy point …

Harbal wrote: ↑Tue Mar 12, 2024 10:10 pm
It could also be said that "transcendence", at least in the way you seem to be using it, doesn't really have any referent at all.

Transcendence doesn't require a bona fide referent, only a personal one being nothing more than a subjective feeling. An example would be a Taylor Swift concert which supplies the conditions of such an experience for a vast multitude of people. For me, it would be Bruckner's ninth symphony. However considered, any such experience cannot be denoted in any specific concrete terms. It all depends on how one's brain chemistry responds to certain inputs. It's the kind of reality which forces whatever is meant by metaphysical to root itself in the physical which supplies the means for an emergence described as metaphysical.

In a way, I think of the latter as the dream state of the former.

Dubious wrote: ↑Wed Mar 13, 2024 1:48 am

Harbal wrote: ↑Tue Mar 12, 2024 10:10 pm
It could also be said that "transcendence", at least in the way you seem to be using it, doesn't really have any referent at all.

Transcendence doesn't require a bona fide referent, only a personal one being nothing more than a subjective feeling. An example would be a Taylor Swift concert which supplies the conditions of such an experience for a vast multitude of people. For me, it would be Bruckner's ninth symphony.

Well you see, I would just call that liking something a lot.

Dubious is good, if repetitive, in shredding the concept so to reduce it to an issue of brain chemistry. As a reductive position the analysis can be and is applied to everything: just brain chemistry.

What feels •transcendental• in a symphony is reduced to being on a par with a teenager’s gushing sentiments at a Swift concert. Just some friction or gurgling of those brain chemicals. A philosophy of physiology.

Ultimately, the view is nihilistic and if nihilism is negating it is due, naturally, to those danged brain chemicals. One could — perhaps one should — pop some Pfizer capsules or down a gramme of Soma —

”All the advantages of Christianity and alcohol; none of their defects …”

— and finally put the pesky old world in order!

It all depends on how one's brain chemistry responds to certain inputs.

Yes, YES!

Harbal wrote: ↑Wed Mar 13, 2024 2:13 am

Dubious wrote: ↑Wed Mar 13, 2024 1:48 am

Harbal wrote: ↑Tue Mar 12, 2024 10:10 pm
It could also be said that "transcendence", at least in the way you seem to be using it, doesn't really have any referent at all.

Transcendence doesn't require a bona fide referent, only a personal one being nothing more than a subjective feeling. An example would be a Taylor Swift concert which supplies the conditions of such an experience for a vast multitude of people. For me, it would be Bruckner's ninth symphony.

Well you see, I would just call that liking something a lot.

I would call that as something more. Music in its vibrations contains as much philosophy as anything written but I know that you and others would most likely disagree.

Alexis Jacobi wrote: ↑Wed Mar 13, 2024 4:00 am Dubious is good, if repetitive, in shredding the concept so to reduce it to an issue of brain chemistry. As a reductive position the analysis can be and is applied to everything: just brain chemistry.

What feels •transcendental• in a symphony is reduced to being on a par with a teenager’s gushing sentiments at a Swift concert. Just some friction or gurgling of those brain chemicals. A philosophy of physiology.

Ultimately, the view is nihilistic and if nihilism is negating it is due, naturally, to those danged brain chemicals. One could — perhaps one should — pop some Pfizer capsules or down a gramme of Soma —

”All the advantages of Christianity and alcohol; none of their defects …”

— and finally put the pesky old world in order!

It all depends on how one's brain chemistry responds to certain inputs.

Yes, YES!

It's the brain which creates subject to time and place and the physical brain that responds. In between, there are many mysterious processes happening to elicit the various kinds of experiences the brain is capable of producing. The brain explains metaphysics, which on its own explains nothing except emergence from its source. Whatever value metaphysics has in no way relies on its provenance. This means, my dear boy, that whatever meaning metaphysics may progress to is not in any way diminished by its origin which you naturally assume it must be...a perennial repeat of the old Cartesian fallacy of strict duality.

Alexis Jacobi wrote: ↑Wed Mar 13, 2024 4:00 am Dubious is good, if repetitive, in shredding the concept so to reduce it to an issue of brain chemistry. As a reductive position the analysis can be and is applied to everything: just brain chemistry.

But I don't think he is saying it diminishes the experience of "transcendence" for the one experiencing it. What it does mean, however, is that you are basically criticising me for not having quite the same brain chemistry as you.

Dubious wrote: ↑Wed Mar 13, 2024 6:15 am Music in its vibrations contains as much philosophy as anything written but I know that you and others would most likely disagree.

I don't know what you mean by that, so I can't really disagree.

Just about sums it up:

(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JXRREWLP62I)

Wizard22 wrote: ↑Wed Mar 13, 2024 11:52 am Just about sums it up:

Go away, you beastly little man.

Harbal wrote: ↑Wed Mar 13, 2024 12:51 pm

Wizard22 wrote: ↑Wed Mar 13, 2024 11:52 am Just about sums it up:

Go away, you beastly little man.

Looks like the post has been deleted. Not sure what it was but it must have been a nasty one.

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Wed Mar 13, 2024 1:19 pm

Harbal wrote: ↑Wed Mar 13, 2024 12:51 pm

Wizard22 wrote: ↑Wed Mar 13, 2024 11:52 am Just about sums it up:

Go away, you beastly little man.

Looks like the post has been deleted. Not sure what it was but it must have been a nasty one.

He talks a lot about licking men's nether regions lately; it might have been something to do with that.

Harbal wrote: ↑Wed Mar 13, 2024 9:12 am But I don't think he is saying it diminishes the experience of "transcendence" for the one experiencing it. What it does mean, however, is that you are basically criticising me for not having quite the same brain chemistry as you.

However, I have developed an aerosol called Reach Agreement Fast! When I meet with you, should the blessèd day ever come, and when the first signals of acute disagreement present their gnarly selves, I'll simply spray a bit of aerosol agreement in your direction!

Alexis Jacobi wrote: ↑Wed Mar 13, 2024 2:07 pm

Harbal wrote: ↑Wed Mar 13, 2024 9:12 am But I don't think he is saying it diminishes the experience of "transcendence" for the one experiencing it. What it does mean, however, is that you are basically criticising me for not having quite the same brain chemistry as you.

However, I have developed an aerosol called Reach Agreement Fast! When I meet with you, should the blessèd day ever come, and when the first signals of acute disagreement present their gnarly selves, I'll simply spray a bit of aerosol agreement in your direction!

It's possible that we would agree on some specifics, but you only seem to want to present your views in very general terms, so it's hard to tell.

Harbal wrote: ↑Wed Mar 13, 2024 2:24 pm It's possible that we would agree on some specifics, but you only seem to want to present your views in very general terms, so it's hard to tell.

Views, in the sense you seem to mean, are complex creatures. Our view depends on a great deal of backgrounding.

Harry Baird, who reads here, makes a similar critique. But I am not here to develop and present a Grand Plan for Societal Rehabilitation. I am working in the direction of clarifying core ideas (HB referred to First Principles) by sorting through specific questions.

Recently sexuality, its use and abuse.