Re: Christian Civilization -- The Central Issue
Posted: Fri May 03, 2024 9:04 pm
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Christian Civilization -- The Central Issue
Page 47 of 56
Re: Christian Civilization -- The Central Issue
Posted: Fri May 03, 2024 11:08 pm
It is possible, though also improbable, that some here know of Matthew Arnold’s poem Dover Beach:
Promethean, would you kindly translate this stanza into Ebonics?The sea of faith
Was once, too, at the full;
But now we only hear
Its melancholy, long, withdrawing roar …
Re: Christian Civilization -- The Central Issue
Posted: Fri May 03, 2024 11:15 pm
...perfectly understandable, ebonically or not.Alexis Jacobi wrote: ↑Fri May 03, 2024 11:08 pm It is possible, though also improbable, that some here know of Matthew Arnold’s poem Dover Beach:
Promethean, would you kindly translate this stanza into Ebonics?The sea of faith
Was once, too, at the full;
But now we only hear
Its melancholy, long, withdrawing roar …
Re: Christian Civilization -- The Central Issue
Posted: Fri May 03, 2024 11:55 pm
This has become very obvious.Alexis Jacobi wrote: ↑Fri May 03, 2024 12:13 pmI feel your pain. Next time please ask complex questions. Simple ones throw me for a loop.
Re: Christian Civilization -- The Central Issue
Posted: Sat May 04, 2024 1:10 am
Well now you know. Complexify, bro! Then we can make solid progress.Age wrote: ↑Fri May 03, 2024 11:55 pmThis has become very obvious.Alexis Jacobi wrote: ↑Fri May 03, 2024 12:13 pmI feel your pain. Next time please ask complex questions. Simple ones throw me for a loop.
Re: Christian Civilization -- The Central Issue
Posted: Sat May 04, 2024 1:14 am
Re: Christian Civilization -- The Central Issue
Posted: Sat May 04, 2024 1:17 am
But, to me, absolutely every thing in Life is simple and easy. So, I cannot so-call 'complexify' what is Truly simple, and easy.Alexis Jacobi wrote: ↑Sat May 04, 2024 1:10 amWell now you know. Complexify, bro! Then we can make solid progress.Age wrote: ↑Fri May 03, 2024 11:55 pmThis has become very obvious.Alexis Jacobi wrote: ↑Fri May 03, 2024 12:13 pm
I feel your pain. Next time please ask complex questions. Simple ones throw me for a loop.
However, if you find things complex and/or hard, then so be it. Keep looking and seeing things this way.
Re: Christian Civilization -- The Central Issue
Posted: Sat May 04, 2024 1:29 am
Not in the case of a trite four-liner so clearly expressed. It stands precisely as written. I hate translations, especially when Shakespeare is translated into modern English it loses most of its power...that which made Shakespeare, Shakespeare.Alexis Jacobi wrote: ↑Sat May 04, 2024 1:14 amFor us, perhaps.
But I think there might be subtleties that could well be brought out through a translation, when it often happens that things are lost in translation.
Re: Christian Civilization -- The Central Issue
Posted: Sat May 04, 2024 2:14 am
Can there be that many 'Christians' out there gullible enough to genuinely believe Donald Trump was somehow cheated out of an election win via consequential significant voter fraud?
Most of the Capitol Hill rioters likely maintain(ed) that line as an excuse for their attempt to overturn Biden’s electoral win — or at least make it as unpleasant as possible, as witnessed on January 6.
Long before the last presidential-election day, Trump was saying he may not respect a Biden win, as though preparing his voter base for his inevitable refusal to leave office, whatever the vote-count results may be.
The rioters and Trump may simply have been enraged enough at his defeat by the supposedly ‘socialist’ Biden (which he is not) that they were now going to go the immoral route.
Or they may have believed he has to remain in office for some perceived greater good (e.g., to 'save the nation', etcetera), regardless of Trump's democratically decided election loss. ... The ends justify the means.
Most of the Capitol Hill rioters likely maintain(ed) that line as an excuse for their attempt to overturn Biden’s electoral win — or at least make it as unpleasant as possible, as witnessed on January 6.
Long before the last presidential-election day, Trump was saying he may not respect a Biden win, as though preparing his voter base for his inevitable refusal to leave office, whatever the vote-count results may be.
The rioters and Trump may simply have been enraged enough at his defeat by the supposedly ‘socialist’ Biden (which he is not) that they were now going to go the immoral route.
Or they may have believed he has to remain in office for some perceived greater good (e.g., to 'save the nation', etcetera), regardless of Trump's democratically decided election loss. ... The ends justify the means.
Re: Christian Civilization -- The Central Issue
Posted: Sat May 04, 2024 2:28 am
The current and interminable Trump saga, I believe, will go down in American history as one of its greatest farces, especially where any interpretation of justice is concerned.
Re: Christian Civilization -- The Central Issue
Posted: Sat May 04, 2024 2:51 am
While John the Baptist believed in him as the one true savior, Jesus’ nature and teachings nevertheless left John troubled by his apparently contradictory version of the Hebraic violent-conqueror messiah, with which John had been raised.
Most perplexing may have been the Biblical Jesus’ revolutionary teaching of non-violently offering the other cheek as the proper response to being physically assaulted by one’s enemy.
Jesus also most profoundly washed his disciples’ feet, the act clearly revealing that he took corporeal form to serve, which of course included saving. As such a hopeful example of the humility of the divine, Jesus joined humankind in their miseries, joys and everything in between.
In large part, Jesus was viciously killed because he did not in the least behave in accordance to corrupted human conduct and expectation — and in particular because he was nowhere near to being the vengeful, wrathful and even bloodthirsty God.
Followers of Islam and Judaism generally believe that Jesus did exist but was not a divine being [albeit Islam teaches that Jesus was a prophet]. After all, how could any divine being place himself/itself down to the level of humans — and even lower, by some other standards? How could any divine entity not be a physical conqueror — far less allow himself to be publicly stripped naked, severely beaten and murdered in such a belittling manner? Yet, for many Christians this makes Jesus even greater, not less.
Institutional Christianity seems to insist upon creating their creator’s nature in their own fallible and often angry, vengeful image; for example, proclaiming at publicized protests that ‘God hates’ such-and-such group of people.
One can imagine that many followers of institutional Christianity — those ‘Christians’ most resistant to Christ’s fundamental teachings of non-violence, compassion and non-wealth — likely find inconvenient, if not plainly annoying, trying to reconcile the conspicuous inconsistency in the fundamental nature of the New Testament’s Jesus with the wrathful, vengeful and even jealous nature of the Old Testament’s Creator.
Often being the most vocal, they make very bad examples of Christ’s fundamental message, especially to the young and impressionable.
Ironically, some of the best humanitarians I’ve met or heard about were/are atheists or agnostics who’d make better examples of many, if not most, of Christ’s teachings than too many institutional 'Christians' (i.e. those apparently most resistant to Christ’s fundamental teachings of non-violence, compassion and non-wealth).
Conversely, some of the worst human(e) beings I’ve met or heard about are the most devout believers/preachers of fundamental Biblical theology.
Most perplexing may have been the Biblical Jesus’ revolutionary teaching of non-violently offering the other cheek as the proper response to being physically assaulted by one’s enemy.
Jesus also most profoundly washed his disciples’ feet, the act clearly revealing that he took corporeal form to serve, which of course included saving. As such a hopeful example of the humility of the divine, Jesus joined humankind in their miseries, joys and everything in between.
In large part, Jesus was viciously killed because he did not in the least behave in accordance to corrupted human conduct and expectation — and in particular because he was nowhere near to being the vengeful, wrathful and even bloodthirsty God.
Followers of Islam and Judaism generally believe that Jesus did exist but was not a divine being [albeit Islam teaches that Jesus was a prophet]. After all, how could any divine being place himself/itself down to the level of humans — and even lower, by some other standards? How could any divine entity not be a physical conqueror — far less allow himself to be publicly stripped naked, severely beaten and murdered in such a belittling manner? Yet, for many Christians this makes Jesus even greater, not less.
Institutional Christianity seems to insist upon creating their creator’s nature in their own fallible and often angry, vengeful image; for example, proclaiming at publicized protests that ‘God hates’ such-and-such group of people.
One can imagine that many followers of institutional Christianity — those ‘Christians’ most resistant to Christ’s fundamental teachings of non-violence, compassion and non-wealth — likely find inconvenient, if not plainly annoying, trying to reconcile the conspicuous inconsistency in the fundamental nature of the New Testament’s Jesus with the wrathful, vengeful and even jealous nature of the Old Testament’s Creator.
Often being the most vocal, they make very bad examples of Christ’s fundamental message, especially to the young and impressionable.
Ironically, some of the best humanitarians I’ve met or heard about were/are atheists or agnostics who’d make better examples of many, if not most, of Christ’s teachings than too many institutional 'Christians' (i.e. those apparently most resistant to Christ’s fundamental teachings of non-violence, compassion and non-wealth).
Conversely, some of the worst human(e) beings I’ve met or heard about are the most devout believers/preachers of fundamental Biblical theology.
Re: Christian Civilization -- The Central Issue
Posted: Sat May 04, 2024 8:14 am
Could you present your (higher order metaphysical?) attainments?Alexis Jacobi wrote: ↑Fri May 03, 2024 8:02 pm Plato, Aristotle — mere children when I reflect on my own attainments.
Re: Christian Civilization -- The Central Issue
Posted: Sat May 04, 2024 9:21 am
An excellent post Frank, I can't find fault. A true Christian listens to and pays attention to Christs words and actions, not what has become 'institutionalised' as "Christianity".FrankGSterleJr wrote: ↑Sat May 04, 2024 2:51 am While John the Baptist believed in him as the one true savior, Jesus’ nature and teachings nevertheless left John troubled by his apparently contradictory version of the Hebraic violent-conqueror messiah, with which John had been raised.
Most perplexing may have been the Biblical Jesus’ revolutionary teaching of non-violently offering the other cheek as the proper response to being physically assaulted by one’s enemy.
Jesus also most profoundly washed his disciples’ feet, the act clearly revealing that he took corporeal form to serve, which of course included saving. As such a hopeful example of the humility of the divine, Jesus joined humankind in their miseries, joys and everything in between.
In large part, Jesus was viciously killed because he did not in the least behave in accordance to corrupted human conduct and expectation — and in particular because he was nowhere near to being the vengeful, wrathful and even bloodthirsty God.
Followers of Islam and Judaism generally believe that Jesus did exist but was not a divine being [albeit Islam teaches that Jesus was a prophet]. After all, how could any divine being place himself/itself down to the level of humans — and even lower, by some other standards? How could any divine entity not be a physical conqueror — far less allow himself to be publicly stripped naked, severely beaten and murdered in such a belittling manner? Yet, for many Christians this makes Jesus even greater, not less.
Institutional Christianity seems to insist upon creating their creator’s nature in their own fallible and often angry, vengeful image; for example, proclaiming at publicized protests that ‘God hates’ such-and-such group of people.
One can imagine that many followers of institutional Christianity — those ‘Christians’ most resistant to Christ’s fundamental teachings of non-violence, compassion and non-wealth — likely find inconvenient, if not plainly annoying, trying to reconcile the conspicuous inconsistency in the fundamental nature of the New Testament’s Jesus with the wrathful, vengeful and even jealous nature of the Old Testament’s Creator.
Often being the most vocal, they make very bad examples of Christ’s fundamental message, especially to the young and impressionable.
Ironically, some of the best humanitarians I’ve met or heard about were/are atheists or agnostics who’d make better examples of many, if not most, of Christ’s teachings than too many institutional 'Christians' (i.e. those apparently most resistant to Christ’s fundamental teachings of non-violence, compassion and non-wealth).
Conversely, some of the worst human(e) beings I’ve met or heard about are the most devout believers/preachers of fundamental Biblical theology.
Re: Christian Civilization -- The Central Issue
Posted: Sat May 04, 2024 11:21 am
You could not possibly have taken me seriously ….Atla wrote: ↑Sat May 04, 2024 8:14 amCould you present your (higher order metaphysical?) attainments?Alexis Jacobi wrote: ↑Fri May 03, 2024 8:02 pm Plato, Aristotle — mere children when I reflect on my own attainments.
Re: Christian Civilization -- The Central Issue
Posted: Sat May 04, 2024 11:43 am
Only half-seriously. People often come forward with their metaphysical attainments here, I do too sometimes. Though I figured that we don't exceed Plato's and Aristotle's significance.Alexis Jacobi wrote: ↑Sat May 04, 2024 11:21 amYou could not possibly have taken me seriously ….Atla wrote: ↑Sat May 04, 2024 8:14 amCould you present your (higher order metaphysical?) attainments?Alexis Jacobi wrote: ↑Fri May 03, 2024 8:02 pm Plato, Aristotle — mere children when I reflect on my own attainments.