God and morality

Is there a God? If so, what is She like?

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Alexis Jacobi
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Re: God and morality

Post by Alexis Jacobi »

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Tue Oct 20, 2026 12:14 am So it's impossible to convince you of anything that "Christians" have or have not done, because you don't even acknowledge the criteria that make one a Christian. So you'll inevitably want to pull in irrelevancies, like the Crusades or the Inquisition, which were Catholic, not Christian, and really, more political than religious, ultimately.
This is, from where I stand, somewhat hard to sort through. All of Christianity — Protestant and Catholic alike — is now and has certainly always been deeply involved in *politics*. The Protestant Reformation (or rebellion) had certain political motives, in addition to theological and social.

The religious wars, and certainly all the history of Catholicism in Europe, cannot be dismissed but neither can they be weaponized (as they always are) to serve other projects of undermining.

As I have often pointed out there is LITERALLY no such thing as a chemically-pure Christian that ever had political power or econonic power and tangible investments in the world. Once invested in the world, you have a range of “responsibilities” that inevitably involve moral and ethical compromises.
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Immanuel Can
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Re: God and morality

Post by Immanuel Can »

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Tue Oct 20, 2026 1:04 pm
Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Tue Oct 20, 2026 2:14 am
phyllo wrote: ↑Tue Oct 20, 2026 2:12 am This is typical Mr Can. Define the difficulties away.
Well, let's see.

What do you think a "Christian" is?
Oooh, ooh, can I take a guess? Is " hypocrite " the answer?
I'm hoping he has a more substantive answer...one that defines the term exactly, so I can understand whom it is in specific he has a bone to pick with.
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Immanuel Can
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Re: God and morality

Post by Immanuel Can »

Alexis Jacobi wrote: ↑Tue Oct 20, 2026 2:40 pm All of Christianity — Protestant and Catholic alike
This is the debated point at the moment, though. Are both really "Christian"? We need to establish that, first, before we can justifiably imagine them as a collective and transfer blame between them.

So...what is a "Christian," in your view?

Let me make the question easier for you, perhaps. Let's start with "what is a Catholic," since that allows us both the "outsider perspective." So you and I are trying to evaluate which persons are true Catholics, and which are not. Let's try.

Two cases:

1. My neighbour is the nicest man you'll ever meet. He's gentle, kind, an excellent father, and would rip off his own arm and hand it to me, if I needed it. You could not find a nicer guy, seriously (this is true, by the way). On Saturday, he takes his whole family to Mass, every week. He kneels in front of the priest, he takes communion, he does penance, he gives generously, he prays and gives thanks to God for every meal he eats.

2. But many mafiosi are also Catholic. They were baptized as infants. They were raised in a Catholic culture, in Sicily, perhaps. But they might darken the door of the Catholic cathedral a couple of times a year. They too have their kids baptized. They too give money to their religion. And when they have somebody "whacked," they maybe cross themselves piously over the body.

Which is the Catholic? The first? The second? Both? Neither? I'm open to whatever answer you think is reasonable.
Last edited by Immanuel Can on Tue Oct 20, 2026 2:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Alexis Jacobi
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Re: God and morality

Post by Alexis Jacobi »

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Tue Oct 20, 2026 2:36 pm If "metaphysics" isn't physics, then how does "metaphysics" measure truth or falsity, or, for that matter, settle disagreements? I mean, what if some guy from Russia comes along who is a "metaphysicist" and tells us that America is the great Satan or something? Do you pull out a charmed locket and demonstrate to him that he is wrong? Or how do "metaphysicians" settle disagreements?
First, I do not think “metaphysical principles” (as I understand the question) are the same as nor are they intimately bound up in principles of physics. They are orders of ideas or orders of principles that are “conceived of” by men at a point where their awareness and consciousness has developed to a certain point.

I am not ignorant of or dismissive of the *concern* you present. Obviously, there is no “elemental table” where moral facts have been isolated and presented as tangibles comparable to a list of physical facts.

My understanding is that “the facts of metaphysics” and the facts of defined values are presented explained and defended by those who have devoted themselves to, say, intricate study (?) philosophical-religious study (?) How else can “such” be explained? It is not a tangible realm, and yet it involves extremely important “things” generally conceived as being “the most important”.

The question of “ultimate agreement” seems a very knotty one. People do indeed locate “great Satans” in one another, do they not? Even and sometimes especially in the secular realm, no?

My understanding is based on a sense of “complicity”. We are all implicated in The Kingdom of Evil to the degree one accepts or entertains the Christian Model.
Gary Childress
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Re: God and morality

Post by Gary Childress »

Alexis Jacobi wrote: ↑Tue Oct 20, 2026 2:58 pm
Gary Childress wrote: ↑Tue Oct 20, 2026 2:36 pm If "metaphysics" isn't physics, then how does "metaphysics" measure truth or falsity, or, for that matter, settle disagreements? I mean, what if some guy from Russia comes along who is a "metaphysicist" and tells us that America is the great Satan or something? Do you pull out a charmed locket and demonstrate to him that he is wrong? Or how do "metaphysicians" settle disagreements?
First, I do not think “metaphysical principles” (as I understand the question) are the same as nor are they intimately bound up in principles of physics. They are orders of ideas or orders of principles that are “conceived of” by men at a point where their awareness and consciousness has developed to a certain point.

I am not ignorant of or dismissive of the *concern* you present. Obviously, there is no “elemental table” where moral facts have been isolated and presented as tangibles comparable to a list of physical facts.

My understanding is that “the facts of metaphysics” and the facts of defined values are presented explained and defended by those who have devoted themselves to, say, intricate study (?) philosophical-religious study (?) How else can “such” be explained? It is not a tangible realm, and yet it involves extremely important “things” generally conceived as being “the most important”.

The question of “ultimate agreement” seems a very knotty one. People do indeed locate “great Satans” in one another, do they not? Even and sometimes especially in the secular realm, no?

My understanding is based on a sense of “complicity”. We are all implicated in The Kingdom of Evil to the degree one accepts or entertains the Christian Model.
Maybe, if there is a disagreement in metaphysics, do metaphysicians fight it out with the armies of people wearing helmets and swords who follow and swear allegiance to their superlative metaphysical gurus? I hadn't thought of that as a possibility.
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Alexis Jacobi
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Re: God and morality

Post by Alexis Jacobi »

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Tue Oct 20, 2026 2:48 pm So...what is a "Christian," in your view?
The simplest way for you to understand my answer to this question would be, for example, to read one of Christopher Dawson’s books where he deals on “the creation of Europe” and the role of metaphysical, theological and social ideals as they are presented and instilled in culture, and by way of culture, into individuals as they accept the mandates to the degree that they can on an internal level.

The external realm is one thing. It is always “polluted” or “contaminated” if you will, always approximate, always striving and incomplete. It’s always “under construction” and ideal.

Similarly is a man’s inner striving.
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Alexis Jacobi
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Re: God and morality

Post by Alexis Jacobi »

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Tue Oct 20, 2026 3:05 pm Maybe, if there is a disagreement in metaphysics, do metaphysicians fight it out with the armies of people wearing helmets and swords who follow and swear allegiance to their superlative metaphysical gurus? I hadn't thought of that as a possibility.
When you begin to get overpowered by ressentiment, you allow yourself to think stupidly.

Both of those battling metaphysicians are advised to stop fighting IMMEDIATELY, and cut you into
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Re: God and morality

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Alexis Jacobi wrote: ↑Tue Oct 20, 2026 3:12 pm
Gary Childress wrote: ↑Tue Oct 20, 2026 3:05 pm Maybe, if there is a disagreement in metaphysics, do metaphysicians fight it out with the armies of people wearing helmets and swords who follow and swear allegiance to their superlative metaphysical gurus? I hadn't thought of that as a possibility.
When you begin to get overpowered by ressentiment, you allow yourself to think stupidly.

Both of those battling metaphysicians are advised to stop fighting IMMEDIATELY, and cut you into
"into..." what? Sausage links? Dragon treats? Lion food? What? What? I want to know!
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Immanuel Can
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Re: God and morality

Post by Immanuel Can »

Alexis Jacobi wrote: ↑Tue Oct 20, 2026 3:09 pm
Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Tue Oct 20, 2026 2:48 pm So...what is a "Christian," in your view?
The simplest way for you to understand my answer to this question would be, for example, to read one of Christopher Dawson’s books
No, the simplest way would be, manifestly, for you to answer that very simple question.

Do you have any answer? Or do you simply not know what a "Christian" is? And what about a "Catholic"? Do you know what one is?
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Alexis Jacobi
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Re: God and morality

Post by Alexis Jacobi »

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Tue Oct 20, 2026 3:16 pm "into..." what? Sausage links? Dragon treats? Lion food? What? What? I want to know!
Valentine hearts 💕 💝

(I am working hard to constrain my barbarian tendencies!)
Gary Childress
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Re: God and morality

Post by Gary Childress »

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Tue Oct 20, 2026 3:37 pm
Alexis Jacobi wrote: ↑Tue Oct 20, 2026 3:09 pm
Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Tue Oct 20, 2026 2:48 pm So...what is a "Christian," in your view?
The simplest way for you to understand my answer to this question would be, for example, to read one of Christopher Dawson’s books
No, the simplest way would be, manifestly, for you to answer that very simple question.

Do you have any answer? Or do you simply not know what a "Christian" is? And what about a "Catholic"? Do you know what one is?
I give up. I don't know. What is a Christian? Be careful, remember: no Christian ever fought in a war where they were fighting for injustice. No Christian ever performed an inquisition on unbelievers or burned someone at the stake for witchcraft. So who does that leave? I guess it leaves anyone and everyone who professed to be a Christian but didn't participate in injustices or advocate for them? Is that, by definition, a "Christian" or a "true" Christian? I'm guessing it is; am I right?
popeye1945
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Re: God and morality

Post by popeye1945 »

IN SIMPLE TERMS, METAPHYSICS ASKS

What is reality, at its deepest level?
What does it mean for anything to exist?
How does everything hang together?
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Greatest I am
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Re: God and morality

Post by Greatest I am »

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Tue Oct 20, 2026 4:03 pm
Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Tue Oct 20, 2026 3:37 pm
Alexis Jacobi wrote: ↑Tue Oct 20, 2026 3:09 pm
The simplest way for you to understand my answer to this question would be, for example, to read one of Christopher Dawson’s books
No, the simplest way would be, manifestly, for you to answer that very simple question.

Do you have any answer? Or do you simply not know what a "Christian" is? And what about a "Catholic"? Do you know what one is?
I give up. I don't know. What is a Christian? Be careful, remember: no Christian ever fought in a war where they were fighting for injustice. No Christian ever performed an inquisition on unbelievers or burned someone at the stake for witchcraft. So who does that leave? I guess it leaves anyone and everyone who professed to be a Christian but didn't participate in injustices or advocate for them? Is that, by definition, a "Christian" or a "true" Christian? I'm guessing it is; am I right?
I like to check with the Bible when I have a biblical question about Christians.

My Bible says that anyone with even a mustard seed sized faith or belief in Jesus the Christ, would be able to do all he did and more.

If I am to believe my Bible, there are no Christians.

Perhaps all potential ones have noted that nowhere in the Bible is Jesus ever raised to Christ.

Before Jesus was, I was.
Gary Childress
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Re: God and morality

Post by Gary Childress »

popeye1945 wrote: ↑Tue Oct 20, 2026 4:18 pm IN SIMPLE TERMS, METAPHYSICS ASKS

What is reality, at its deepest level?
What does it mean for anything to exist?
How does everything hang together?
Questions that are apparently beyond human capacity to know the answers to (especially if there's no God). Now what?
popeye1945
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Below is a **full, historically grounded timeline** of the rise of the **American Empire**, including itRe: God and mora

Post by popeye1945 »

FOR THE PRETENTIOUS!

Below is a **full, historically grounded timeline** of the rise of the **American Empire**, including its **transition from the British Empire**, its **continental expansion**, and its **global imperial reach**.
All factual claims are sourced from the search results above.

---

# **THE HISTORY OF THE AMERICAN EMPIRE — A COMPLETE TIMELINE**
*(From British imperial collapse → U.S. continental empire → overseas empire → global hegemon)*

---

## **I. ORIGINS: FROM BRITISH EMPIRE TO AMERICAN FOUNDING (1607–1783)**
- **1607–1750s — British colonial foothold**
Jamestown (1607) marks the first permanent English settlement. Britain expands along the Atlantic coast. [Library of Congress](https://www.loc.gov/classroom-materials ... -timeline/)

- **1763 — Britain wins the French & Indian War**
Britain gains massive North American territory but becomes financially strained, leading to colonial taxation. [briefhistory.us](https://briefhistory.us/guides/complete ... an-history)

- **1765–1775 — Colonial resistance intensifies**
Tax revolts, Boston Tea Party (1773), and escalating conflict. [briefhistory.us](https://briefhistory.us/guides/complete ... an-history)

- **1775–1783 — American Revolution**
Colonies break from Britain; Yorktown (1781) ends major fighting; Treaty of Paris (1783) recognizes U.S. independence. [briefhistory.us](https://briefhistory.us/guides/complete ... an-history)

**Transition point:**
The U.S. emerges as an **ex‑British colony turned independent continental power**, inheriting Britain’s former North American imperial space.

---

## **II. CONTINENTAL EMPIRE-BUILDING (1783–1890)**
The U.S. becomes a **land empire**, expanding across the continent through purchase, war, and displacement.

- **1803 — Louisiana Purchase**
U.S. doubles in size, gaining the Mississippi basin. [netsuite.blog](https://netsuite.blog/american-imperialism-timeline)

- **1823 — Monroe Doctrine**
U.S. declares the Western Hemisphere off-limits to European powers — an early imperial doctrine. [netsuite.blog](https://netsuite.blog/american-imperialism-timeline)

- **1846–1848 — Mexican-American War**
U.S. seizes half of Mexico’s territory (California, New Mexico, Arizona, etc.). [netsuite.blog](https://netsuite.blog/american-imperialism-timeline)

- **1865–1890 — Conquest of the American West**
Settler colonialism, wars with Native nations, and forced removal. [Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_imperialism)

By 1890, the U.S. is a **continental empire**, having displaced Indigenous nations and rival powers.

---

## **III. OVERSEAS IMPERIAL TURN (1890–1914)**
This is the moment the U.S. replaces the British Empire as the **dominant Anglo‑imperial force**.

- **1893 — Overthrow of Hawaiian Kingdom**
U.S. business interests stage a coup against Queen Liliuokalani. [Students of History](https://www.studentsofhistory.com/timel ... essive-era)

- **1898 — Annexation of Hawaii**
Formal absorption of the islands. [Students of History](https://www.studentsofhistory.com/timel ... essive-era)

- **1898 — Spanish-American War**
U.S. defeats Spain; gains **Puerto Rico, Guam, Philippines**.
This marks the **birth of the American overseas empire**. [Students of History](https://www.studentsofhistory.com/timel ... essive-era)

- **1899–1902 — Philippine-American War**
U.S. suppresses Filipino independence movement; Philippines becomes a colony. [Students of History](https://www.studentsofhistory.com/timel ... essive-era)

- **1901 — Platt Amendment (Cuba)**
U.S. gains permanent rights to intervene in Cuban affairs. [Students of History](https://www.studentsofhistory.com/timel ... essive-era)

- **1903–1914 — Panama Canal**
U.S. engineers Panamanian independence and builds the canal, securing global naval reach. [netsuite.blog](https://netsuite.blog/american-imperialism-timeline)

**Imperial shift:**
By 1900, the U.S. has **replaced Britain** as the leading imperial power in the Western Hemisphere and is expanding into the Pacific.

---

## **IV. GLOBAL RISE THROUGH WORLD WARS (1914–1945)**
- **1917–1918 — World War I**
U.S. intervention helps tip the balance; America emerges as a global creditor and power. [Library of Congress](https://www.loc.gov/classroom-materials ... -timeline/)

- **1939–1945 — World War II**
Britain collapses financially; U.S. becomes the world’s industrial and military superpower.
The British Empire effectively ends; the **American Century** begins. [Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_imperialism)

---

## **V. THE COLD WAR IMPERIAL SYSTEM (1945–1991)**
The U.S. builds a **planetary network of bases, alliances, coups, and interventions**.

- **1947 — Truman Doctrine**
U.S. commits to global anti-communist intervention. [netsuite.blog](https://netsuite.blog/american-imperialism-timeline)

- **1950–1953 — Korean War**
Massive U.S. military intervention. [Library of Congress](https://www.loc.gov/classroom-materials ... -timeline/)

- **1953 — Iran coup**
CIA overthrows Mossadegh. [Library of Congress](https://www.loc.gov/classroom-materials ... -timeline/)

- **1954 — Guatemala coup**
CIA removes Árbenz. [Library of Congress](https://www.loc.gov/classroom-materials ... -timeline/)

- **1965 — Dominican Republic intervention**
U.S. troops land to control political outcomes. [Library of Congress](https://www.loc.gov/classroom-materials ... -timeline/)

- **1965–1975 — Vietnam War**
Major U.S. war in Southeast Asia. [Library of Congress](https://www.loc.gov/classroom-materials ... -timeline/)

- **1973 — Chile coup**
U.S. supports overthrow of Allende. [Library of Congress](https://www.loc.gov/classroom-materials ... -timeline/)

- **1980s — Latin American proxy wars**
Nicaragua, El Salvador, and others. [Library of Congress](https://www.loc.gov/classroom-materials ... -timeline/)

By 1991, the U.S. has conducted **200+ interventions since 1945**, making it the most interventionist modern empire. [Library of Congress](https://www.loc.gov/classroom-materials ... -timeline/)

---

## **VI. POST–COLD WAR UNIPOLAR EMPIRE (1991–2001)**
With the Soviet Union gone, the U.S. becomes the **sole global superpower**.

- **1991 — Gulf War**
U.S. leads coalition to expel Iraq from Kuwait. [Library of Congress](https://www.loc.gov/classroom-materials ... -timeline/)

- **1995 — Bosnia intervention**
NATO bombing led by U.S. [Library of Congress](https://www.loc.gov/classroom-materials ... -timeline/)

- **1999 — Kosovo War**
U.S.-led NATO bombing of Serbia. [Library of Congress](https://www.loc.gov/classroom-materials ... -timeline/)

---

## **VII. THE 21st-CENTURY IMPERIAL ERA (2001–present)**
- **2001–2021 — Afghanistan War**
Longest U.S. war. [Library of Congress](https://www.loc.gov/classroom-materials ... -timeline/)

- **2003–2011 — Iraq War**
U.S. invasion and occupation. [Library of Congress](https://www.loc.gov/classroom-materials ... -timeline/)

- **2011 — Libya intervention**
NATO bombing leads to regime collapse. [Library of Congress](https://www.loc.gov/classroom-materials ... -timeline/)

- **2014–present — Syria operations**
Anti-ISIS airstrikes and special forces. [Library of Congress](https://www.loc.gov/classroom-materials ... -timeline/)

- **2015–present — Yemen involvement**
U.S. supports Saudi-led coalition. [Library of Congress](https://www.loc.gov/classroom-materials ... -timeline/)

- **Ongoing — Global base network**
Hundreds of bases worldwide; economic, cultural, and military influence. [Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_imperialism)

---

# **SUMMARY: THE AMERICAN EMPIRE IN HISTORICAL ARC**

### **1. British Empire collapses → U.S. fills the vacuum (1783–1945)**
U.S. inherits British colonial space, expands continentally, then globally.

### **2. Continental empire (1783–1890)**
Conquest of Indigenous nations and Mexico.

### **3. Overseas empire (1890–1914)**
Hawaii, Philippines, Puerto Rico, Guam; interventions in Cuba and Panama.

### **4. Global hegemon (1945–present)**
Cold War interventions, post‑Cold War dominance, 21st‑century military reach.

---

If you want, I can now produce:

- **A visual map of U.S. imperial expansion**
- **A comparison timeline: British Empire vs American Empire**
- **A table of all U.S. interventions by region and decade**

Just tell me the direction you want next.
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