Philosophy Now Forum

Posted: **Wed Aug 16, 2017 1:37 am**

vegetariantaxidermy wrote: ↑Wed Aug 16, 2017 1:17 am
Hobbes' Choice wrote: ↑Tue Aug 15, 2017 11:28 pm
The government is not taking YOUR money. They are taking back THEIR money. They issue it they control it. They let you have some of it, but when it comes down to it they expect you to 'render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's"

Excellent point, and one that all the greedy tossers who constantly whinge about 'socialism' and THEIR hard-earned money being 'stolen' from them (they never mind it being spent on things like the military and nuclear weapons) don't seem to be capable of grasping. (Darned post just won't 'quote' properly).

Give to Caesar what is Caesar's.

This raises the obvious question what is Caesar's from a secular perspective? Do you belong to Caesar? The Great Beast has provided for your existence. You belong to the Great Beast. To deny your slavery to the Beast questions the ultimate authority of the Beast which is intolerable.

Posted: **Wed Aug 16, 2017 5:28 am**

Nick's problem here is that we do not live in "secular" societies. Nearly all societies are deeply theistic, certainly all of the Anglosphere, with social laws almost entirely mirroring the values of the pushy theistic minority while disregarding the views of the much quieter and more peaceful secular majorities.

This level of dominance is not enough for Nick. Seemingly nothing will suffice, apparently, but complete theistic dominance and control.

Posted: **Wed Aug 16, 2017 4:07 pm**

Greta:

This level of dominance is not enough for Nick. Seemingly nothing will suffice, apparently, but complete theistic dominance and control.

This does not go far enough to satisfy saint Nick. Look at how often he asserts that Christians are not Christians because their brand of Christianity differs from his own.Our tolerance of them becomes secular intolerance because Nick is intolerant of them and we are intolerant of him. I suspect he has recently added the American Weil Society as members of the Great Beast. No doubt Needleman does not approve of his never-ending arguments and if he said so publicly he too would be added to the pile. If Plato had not written the Euthyphro the Nick_A could serve as his dialogue on pious frauds.

The only level of dominance that is enough for NIck would be if like in Plato’s Republic he could take the children when they are young and raise them without outside interference and create his own anti-Great Beast Great Beast.

Posted: **Wed Aug 16, 2017 9:07 pm**

Greta wrote: ↑Wed Aug 16, 2017 5:28 am Nick's problem here is that we do not live in "secular" societies. Nearly all societies are deeply theistic, certainly all of the Anglosphere, with social laws almost entirely mirroring the values of the pushy theistic minority while disregarding the views of the much quieter and more peaceful secular majorities.

This level of dominance is not enough for Nick. Seemingly nothing will suffice, apparently, but complete theistic dominance and control.

IN a recent work, Henri Nouwen emphasizes the essence of spirituality in a most succinct fashion: “To whom do we belong? This is the core question of the spiritual life. Do we belong to the world, its worries, its people and its endless chain of urgencies and emergencies, or do we belong to God and God’s people.”

Those like Greta do not understand that theism as an expression of society is secular. It belongs to the world. It doesn’t matter what people call it. If it is concerned with the world and its “endless chain of urgencies and emergencies" it is secular. If it concerns the attempts to consciously leave the attachments of Plato’s cave with help from above then it is the efforts of God’s people.

Greta’s God is the Great Beast. Its domain is Plato’s cave and is worshipped by those who believe in Cave life as the ultimate in human evolution.

My God or the source of existence is the “GOOD’ of Plato and the “ONE” of Plotinus. It is beyond the limitations of time and space and the universe is its body of which I am a speck. The Great Beast demands its subjects serve it as a slave to imagination while those in the body of God are drawn to serve the body as a conscious human being. Man on earth serves the universe as an animal necessity with the potential to serve the body as a conscious being. The Great Beast seeks to perpetuate animal necessity while God’s people are drawn to the Source

Greta and I have entirely different perspectives as to what Man is and what if any purpose it serves in the universe. The difference is that her God is intolerant of mine and as is normal for secular intolerance, will not be against expressing her secular intolerance when the opportunity presents itself. However as Einstein wrote: “We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them.” All the pleasant thoughts of secularism will produce their opposite. We are hypocrites and everything turns in circles. It is nature’s way and since animal reaction dominates the human condition, it is the way of the Beast.

Posted: **Wed Aug 16, 2017 9:30 pm**

Nick_A wrote: ↑Wed Aug 16, 2017 9:07 pm Greta’s God is the Great Beast.

That is neither true of Greta nor many of the rest of us. It's just that you refuse to recognise it, otherwise you would have no one to rant against.

Its domain is Plato’s cave and is worshipped by those who believe in Cave life as the ultimate in human evolution.

It's strange how the ones you criticise the most seem to have more vision than you do when it comes to seeing beyond our earthly existence.

My God or the source of existence

Then it seems that you are the one putting restrictions on yourself.

The Great Beast demands its subjects serve it as a slave

You are the slave of your brainless delusions, Nick, you can't see past the end of your nose.

Greta and I have entirely different perspectives as to what Man is and what if any purpose it serves in the universe.

The only purpose you are serving is to get on peoples nerves.

If your perspective on the Universe is so much better than everyone else's how come you are so small and mundane? How come you don't inspire, rather than alienate.

Posted: **Wed Aug 16, 2017 9:43 pm**

fooloso4 wrote: ↑Wed Aug 16, 2017 4:07 pm Greta:

This level of dominance is not enough for Nick. Seemingly nothing will suffice, apparently, but complete theistic dominance and control.
This does not go far enough to satisfy saint Nick. Look at how often he asserts that Christians are not Christians because their brand of Christianity differs from his own.Our tolerance of them becomes secular intolerance because Nick is intolerant of them and we are intolerant of him. I suspect he has recently added the American Weil Society as members of the Great Beast. No doubt Needleman does not approve of his never-ending arguments and if he said so publicly he too would be added to the pile. If Plato had not written the Euthyphro the Nick_A could serve as his dialogue on pious frauds.

The only level of dominance that is enough for NIck would be if like in Plato’s Republic he could take the children when they are young and raise them without outside interference and create his own anti-Great Beast Great Beast.

A Christian is one who lives in accordance with the precepts of Christ. A pre-Christian is one who is attracted to Christianity but is incapable of it. A non-Christian has no interest. To you they are all the same.

The modern progressive belief is that we are what we call ourselves. If a man calls himself a woman or if a woman calls herself a man they are what they call themselves. If a person calls themselves a Christian that is what they are to the progressive mind. Of course it doesn’t make sense but when has that gotten in the way of secular progressive progress.

Of course the American Weil Society is in the cave. There are people in the cave of the world who defend cave life and draw prestige from it until their death. There are those in the cave that are drawn to leaving its influences and there is this small minority who have consciously outgrown psychological slavery. The AWS includes many who understand their situation and study Simone as an influence leading to freedom.

We are hereby pleased to announce the 38th Annual Colloquy of the American Weil Society, which will be held at the University of Ottawa on April 20-21, 2018, hosted by Sophie Bourgault (Associate Professor of Political Studies at the School of Social Sciences of the University of Ottawa). The topic of this colloquy is: “Simone Weil: Beyond Ideology?” This theme is deliberately broad, so that Weil’s religious, political, and/or ethical philosophy may be addressed under the heading.

As a secularist you could never be open to the question of “Beyond Ideology.” Yet there are highly intelligent spiritual people capable of contemplating the potential of pondering what is beyond ideology as Simone’s life describes it.

Being intolerant of the human condition is like being intolerant of the laws of gravity. It is what it is. What is odd is why secular intolerance is so dedicated to sustaining psychological slavery to imagination. We are lucky to have the Simones of the world unafraid as seekers of truth to “annoy the great beast.” Without their influence the human situation would be hopeless.

Posted: **Wed Aug 16, 2017 9:55 pm**

Nick_A wrote: ↑Wed Aug 16, 2017 9:43 pm We are lucky to have the Simones of the world unafraid as seekers of truth to “annoy the great beast.” Without their influence the human situation would be hopeless.

She doesn't seem to be having much influence round here.

Posted: **Wed Aug 16, 2017 10:09 pm**

Harbal

If your perspective on the Universe is so much better than everyone else's how come you are so small and mundane? How come you don't inspire, rather than alienate.

If I want to inspire I have to become a demagogue.

“The secret of the demagogue is to make himself as stupid as his audience so they believe they are clever as he.” ~ Karl Kraus

I’m trying to discuss the fallen human condition which has created so much unnatural atrocity in the world. This isn’t inspirational. Is it inspirational to talk about the black plague? However there are those who are unafraid to ponder the problem rather than become demagogues. You may ridicule them but I have the highest regard for their efforts.

Posted: **Wed Aug 16, 2017 10:15 pm**

Nick_A wrote: ↑Wed Aug 16, 2017 10:09 pm
If I want to inspire I have to become a demagogue.

“The secret of the demagogue is to make himself as stupid as his audience so they believe they are clever as he.” ~ Karl Kraus

So you are making yourself far more stupid than your audience in order to avoid inspiring them? That's a smart strategy for an idiot.

Posted: **Wed Aug 16, 2017 10:47 pm**

Nick operates like an information black hole - information that enters Nick's brain is destroyed, although a small portion of the refuse is released as hot gas.

Posted: **Thu Aug 17, 2017 12:18 am**

Greta wrote: ↑Wed Aug 16, 2017 10:47 pm Nick operates like an information black hole - information that enters Nick's brain is destroyed, although a small portion of the refuse is released as hot gas.

Translation: I am too thick headed to appreciate the depth and profundity of the pearls of wisdom being thrown my way by secular intolerants. Greta: a legend in her own mind.

But the sad truth is that people suffer because of this misguided egoism

Posted: **Thu Aug 17, 2017 12:31 am**

Harbal wrote: ↑Wed Aug 16, 2017 10:15 pm
Nick_A wrote: ↑Wed Aug 16, 2017 10:09 pm
If I want to inspire I have to become a demagogue.

“The secret of the demagogue is to make himself as stupid as his audience so they believe they are clever as he.” ~ Karl Kraus

So you are making yourself far more stupid than your audience in order to avoid inspiring them? That's a smart strategy for an idiot.

No, regardless of which way the football bounces, the crow flies in the same direction even when the wolf howls twice at the moon.

Posted: **Thu Aug 17, 2017 12:37 am**

Nick_A wrote: ↑Thu Aug 17, 2017 12:18 am
Greta wrote: ↑Wed Aug 16, 2017 10:47 pm Nick operates like an information black hole - information that enters Nick's brain is destroyed, although a small portion of the refuse is released as hot gas.
Translation: I am too thick headed to appreciate the depth and profundity of the pearls of wisdom being thrown my way by secular intolerants. Greta: a legend in her own mind.

But the sad truth is that people suffer because of this misguided egoism

Almost. You are actually too thick-headed to remember what I have said before and thus keep on making the same accusations even after it's been made clear that they are inappropriate.

Funny you should speak about ego, because yours resembles a black hole too - a tiny, shrivelled thing coiled tightly in on itself but generating a huge field of self-serving bullshit aimed at pulling in unfortunate passers by.

Posted: **Thu Aug 17, 2017 12:51 am**

Greta wrote: ↑Thu Aug 17, 2017 12:37 am
Nick_A wrote: ↑Thu Aug 17, 2017 12:18 am
Greta wrote: ↑Wed Aug 16, 2017 10:47 pm Nick operates like an information black hole - information that enters Nick's brain is destroyed, although a small portion of the refuse is released as hot gas.
Translation: I am too thick headed to appreciate the depth and profundity of the pearls of wisdom being thrown my way by secular intolerants. Greta: a legend in her own mind.

But the sad truth is that people suffer because of this misguided egoism
Almost. You are actually too thick-headed to remember what I have said before and thus keep on making the same accusations even after it's been made clear that they are inappropriate.

Funny you should speak about ego, because yours resembles a black hole too - a tiny, shrivelled thing coiled tightly in on itself but generating a huge field of self-serving bullshit aimed at pulling in unfortunate passers by.

Since I quote others, this list of characters detailed by F4, you are actually making ad homs about them. It never dawns on you that their understanding far exceeds both mine and yours. But since they question the supremacy of your God and its demand to be worshipped and declared the ultimate expression in human evolution you must become intolerant of them

Posted: **Thu Aug 17, 2017 1:13 am**

Nick_A wrote: ↑Thu Aug 17, 2017 12:51 amSince I quote others, this list of characters detailed by F4, you are actually making ad homs about them. It never dawns on you that their understanding far exceeds both mine and yours. But since they question the supremacy of your God and its demand to be worshipped and declared the ultimate expression in human evolution you must become intolerant of them

The quotes are fine. It's your screwed up interpretations of them that are not. As noted, you are an information masher.

I have no idea why you make the accusations that you do. Your assumptions about me are almost always wrong. You seem to pluck these accusations out of your bum. Which God is it that I supposedly worship? Your Great Beast?

You clown! If you think I'm keen on conformism then you are even more out of touch than I thought.

You know what I worship? More or well everything. Well, not you, of course. I joke, of course, as even an utter prat like you is an expression of the wonder that is life. Everything in reality is impressive if you pay it enough attention: space, geology and biology - from macro to subatomic level - humans and humanity, the subjective sense of being and so on. All of it is amazing and beyond our ken.

What was that you were saying about this so-called God of mine?

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