Philosophy Now Forum

Harry Baird wrote: ↑Sat Aug 27, 2022 12:37 am This is epiphenomenalism, the view which I've already pointed out is analytically defeated in the article Exit Epiphenomenalism: The Demolition of a Refuge by Titus Rivas & Hein van Dongen. Of course, as hq points out, disproofs such as this will simply be ignored by the fools of physicalism, who are only interested in evidence which supports their view.

You just don't get it, do you? Consciousness can not push atoms around. End of discussion.

attofishpi wrote: ↑Sat Aug 27, 2022 3:54 am

BigMike wrote: ↑Fri Aug 26, 2022 11:46 pm

attofishpi wrote: ↑Fri Aug 26, 2022 11:43 pm

So my conscious mind where I decide I want to reach out for my cup of tea, and bring it to my mouth for a sip, had nothing to do with it?

Certainly not. This decision was made by your physical brain alone.

What are we defining as matter? We are likely to agree that an atom is matter, but is a particle also matter? Is a particle physical

Of course. Some particles are made up of atoms, others, like electrons, protons, neutrons, quarks, are subatomic.

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Sat Aug 27, 2022 6:28 amSo the decision was not made by the brain itself, the decision was only a recording ..in other words there is no decision maker, except as illusion manifest through the only instrument available, a physical brain.

I agree that the brain doesn't make any conscious decisions. It would, perhaps, be more correct if I had said that the decision is made in, not by, the brain.

BigMike wrote: ↑Fri Aug 26, 2022 11:46 pm

attofishpi wrote: ↑Fri Aug 26, 2022 11:43 pm So my conscious mind where I decide I want to reach out for my cup of tea, and bring it to my mouth for a sip, had nothing to do with it?

Certainly not. This decision was made by your physical brain alone.

BigMike wrote: ↑Fri Aug 26, 2022 11:46 pmI agree that the brain doesn't make any conscious decisions. It would, perhaps, be more correct if I had said that the decision is made in, not by, the brain.

Do you see your contradiction in your above two statements?

Tales of the Fools For Physicalism: Episode One

Once upon a time, there lived a physicalist fool named Mike. Mike liked the idea that he was Big. This had nothing to do with his foolish physicalism, of course, which was, in contrast, very, very Small.

One day, this physicalist fool, getting up out of bed, stretched widely, and declared that mind could emerge from matter.

He paused a little, and then, pumping his biceps, declared that mind could not affect matter.

Just for fun, this physicalist fool left both declarations standing, as though they were rationally consistent. The whole world had a jolly good laugh and then patted the physicalist fool on his back for the exceptionally good joke.

The End.

Tales of the Fools For Physicalism: Episode Two

The physicalist fool Mike had a little breakfast, and then pondered his next escapade.

He decided that it should be to ignore the disproof of his views provided to him in the article his buddy had shared with him on the forums.

After breakfast, he continued to ignore the disproof his views, and sunned himself on his veranda.

The End.

BigMike wrote: ↑Sat Aug 27, 2022 7:48 am

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Sat Aug 27, 2022 6:28 amSo the decision was not made by the brain itself, the decision was only a recording ..in other words there is no decision maker, except as illusion manifest through the only instrument available, a physical brain.

I agree that the brain doesn't make any conscious decisions. It would, perhaps, be more correct if I had said that the decision is made in, not by, the brain.

It's not even 'in'

For where is the in or out of HERE ...RIGHT NOW.. except as concept known. Where is the inside of everywhere at once, where is the outside of everywhere at once....there is no such divide ...there is no boundry or edge to everywhere at once, nowhere.

Only that which is known as a concept is physically known as a solid object. And therefore in and of itself, a known thing cannot know...it cannot know nothing of it's reality, that's like saying a rock can know it is a rock....the knowing of rock is purely conceptual, the only known thing.

Reality is an illusion ..Einstein was right about the illusory nature of reality, insomuch as knowledge, aka concepts are all that is known which know nothing of their knowing....and is why philosophers will never collectively agree upon anything they are talking about, because that requires two things, a knower and a known.


In reality, the knower and known are the same one thing...knowing itself, the only knowing there is, one with the knowing.

attofishpi wrote: ↑Sat Aug 27, 2022 7:54 am

BigMike wrote: ↑Fri Aug 26, 2022 11:46 pm

attofishpi wrote: ↑Fri Aug 26, 2022 11:43 pm So my conscious mind where I decide I want to reach out for my cup of tea, and bring it to my mouth for a sip, had nothing to do with it?

Certainly not. This decision was made by your physical brain alone.

BigMike wrote: ↑Fri Aug 26, 2022 11:46 pmI agree that the brain doesn't make any conscious decisions. It would, perhaps, be more correct if I had said that the decision is made in, not by, the brain.

Do you see your contradiction in your above two statements?

Nope.

BigMike wrote: ↑Sat Aug 27, 2022 8:27 am

attofishpi wrote: ↑Sat Aug 27, 2022 7:54 am

BigMike wrote: ↑Fri Aug 26, 2022 11:46 pm

Certainly not. This decision was made by your physical brain alone.

BigMike wrote: ↑Fri Aug 26, 2022 11:46 pmI agree that the brain doesn't make any conscious decisions. It would, perhaps, be more correct if I had said that the decision is made in, not by, the brain.

Do you see your contradiction in your above two statements?

Nope.

Logic not your strong suit then.

attofishpi wrote: ↑Sat Aug 27, 2022 9:14 am

BigMike wrote: ↑Sat Aug 27, 2022 8:27 am

attofishpi wrote: ↑Sat Aug 27, 2022 7:54 am Do you see your contradiction in your above two statements?

Nope.

Logic not your strong suit then.

If holding a degree in Mathematical Logic does not meet your criteria, then I must acknowledge that it, from your vantage point, may not be.

BigMike wrote: ↑Sat Aug 27, 2022 9:30 am

attofishpi wrote: ↑Sat Aug 27, 2022 9:14 am

BigMike wrote: ↑Sat Aug 27, 2022 8:27 am
Nope.

Logic not your strong suit then.

If holding a degree in Mathematical Logic does not meet your criteria, then I must acknowledge that it, from your vantage point, may not be.

Well that explains it..next degree should be in semantics.

attofishpi wrote: ↑Sat Aug 27, 2022 9:36 am

BigMike wrote: ↑Sat Aug 27, 2022 9:30 am

attofishpi wrote: ↑Sat Aug 27, 2022 9:14 am
Logic not your strong suit then.

If holding a degree in Mathematical Logic does not meet your criteria, then I must acknowledge that it, from your vantage point, may not be.

Well that explains it..next degree should be in semantics.

Are you talking about first-order language semantics?

BigMike wrote: ↑Sat Aug 27, 2022 9:43 am

attofishpi wrote: ↑Sat Aug 27, 2022 9:36 am

BigMike wrote: ↑Sat Aug 27, 2022 9:30 am

If holding a degree in Mathematical Logic does not meet your criteria, then I must acknowledge that it, from your vantage point, may not be.

Well that explains it..next degree should be in semantics.

Are you talking about first-order language semantics?

Logical semantics - but truly cbf, your two statements were contradictions:-
1- (answering my statement that my conscious mind makes decisions) Certainly not. This decision was made by your physical brain alone.
2- the brain doesn't make any conscious decisions.

Um...

attofishpi wrote: ↑Sat Aug 27, 2022 9:50 am

BigMike wrote: ↑Sat Aug 27, 2022 9:43 am

attofishpi wrote: ↑Sat Aug 27, 2022 9:36 am

Well that explains it..next degree should be in semantics.

Are you talking about first-order language semantics?

Logical semantics - but truly cbf, your two statements were contradictions:-
1- (answering my statement that my conscious mind makes decisions) Certainly not. This decision was made by your physical brain alone.
2- the brain doesn't make any conscious decisions.

Um...

You don't see it? Decisions are not made by any non-material "consciousness." In your first point above, I explicitly said the decision (not "your conscious decision") is made by your physical brain alone. And in your second point I just clarified that subtle(?) distinction, for people who may not have noticed its significance.

BigMike wrote: ↑Sat Aug 27, 2022 9:59 am

attofishpi wrote: ↑Sat Aug 27, 2022 9:50 am

BigMike wrote: ↑Sat Aug 27, 2022 9:43 am
Are you talking about first-order language semantics?

Logical semantics - but truly cbf, your two statements were contradictions:-
1- (answering my statement that my conscious mind makes decisions) Certainly not. This decision was made by your physical brain alone.
2- the brain doesn't make any conscious decisions.

Um...

You don't see it? Decisions are not made by any non-material "consciousness." In your first point above, I explicitly said the decision (not "your conscious decision") is made by your physical brain alone. And in your second point I just clarified that subtle(?) distinction, for people who may not have noticed its significance.

This is all wrong.

First of all it's relative to the absolute, which you can never access.

Take the first person perspective, where is that coming from...one person has never seen it's own brain.

So how could brain be known to exist...the brain is simply a concept known by no brain. No thing can know itself, life is an illusion...

Non-speaking animals have no concept they are an animal...your whole language is built of nothing, no thing, not a thing.