Philosophy Now Forum

Impenitent wrote: ↑Sat Aug 07, 2021 6:24 pmhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vesto_Slipher

lack of sleeves aside, that guy had a groovy name

-Imp

I thought he was great in The Man from U.N.C.L.E.

Age wrote: ↑Sat Aug 07, 2021 2:27 pmAs I ALREADY alluded to, gravity ONLY implies the Universe will collapse, (or better worded 'contract'), to those people who do NOT YET FULLY understand how gravity ACTUALLY WORKS.

And as I already said:

uwot wrote: ↑Sat Aug 07, 2021 1:51 pmNo Age, gravity implies the universe will collapse to everyone who understands gravity.

Age wrote: ↑Sat Aug 07, 2021 2:27 pmNow you want to CLAIM that I do NOT understand how gravity actually works, which OBVIOUSLY means that you BELIEVE that you do KNOW how gravity ACTUALLY works. So, will you back up and support this CLAIM of YOURS by EXPLAINING how gravity ACTUALLY works?

If yes, then great.

But if no, then WHY NOT?

In a word: refraction. It's all in here Age: https://popgunsbubblesandmotorbikes.blo ... ter-1.html
Now you want to CLAIM that I do NOT understand how gravity actually works, which OBVIOUSLY means that you BELIEVE that you do KNOW how gravity ACTUALLY works. So, will you back up and support this CLAIM of YOURS by EXPLAINING how gravity ACTUALLY works?

If yes, then great.

But if no, then WHY NOT?

uwot wrote: ↑Sat Aug 07, 2021 8:20 pm

Age wrote: ↑Sat Aug 07, 2021 2:27 pmAs I ALREADY alluded to, gravity ONLY implies the Universe will collapse, (or better worded 'contract'), to those people who do NOT YET FULLY understand how gravity ACTUALLY WORKS.

And as I already said:

uwot wrote: ↑Sat Aug 07, 2021 1:51 pmNo Age, gravity implies the universe will collapse to everyone who understands gravity.

Age wrote: ↑Sat Aug 07, 2021 2:27 pmNow you want to CLAIM that I do NOT understand how gravity actually works, which OBVIOUSLY means that you BELIEVE that you do KNOW how gravity ACTUALLY works. So, will you back up and support this CLAIM of YOURS by EXPLAINING how gravity ACTUALLY works?

If yes, then great.

But if no, then WHY NOT?

In a word: refraction. It's all in here Age: https://popgunsbubblesandmotorbikes.blo ... ter-1.html

LOL And I have ALREADY informed you of some of what is False, Wrong, and Incorrect in that little comic book of yours.

Contrary to your BELIEF "uwot", if people are STILL concluding that gravity IMPLIES the Universe WILL collapse, then these people OBVIOUSLY still do NOT YET FULLY understand how gravity ACTUALLY WORKS. This is PROVED True by the FACT that the Universe OBVIOUSLY does NOT collapse, and could NOT ever collapse, by the way. And this is PROVED True by the FACT of what the Universe is fundamentally and thus essentially is made up of. Also, how the Universe ACTUALLY WORKS keeps matter contracting towards and expanding away from itself, ALWAYS.

It is all here "uwot", before you, to OBSERVE and EXPERIENCE.

If, to you, gravity STILL implies the Universe will collapse, then WHY, to you, does the Universe, obviously, NOT collapse?

What is 'it', which is countering gravity? What is the opposing force of gravity?

What, to you, implies the Universe IS EXPANDING?

When one KNOWS what keeps the Universe in a constant state of CHANGE where the Universe can NOT and will NOT collapse, NOR expand, then just because objects are attracted towards each other, also known as; gravity, then this does NOT imply the Universe will collapse, to this one.

Stating, "gravity implies the Universe will collapse", is like stating, "sunshine implies the earth will heat up". When one does NOT YET KNOW and UNDERSTAND the big or whole FULL Picture of 'things', then some will make ridiculous and illogical CLAIMS like these. But, gravity does NOT imply the Universe will collapse to those who Truly UNDERSTAND and KNOW how gravity and thee Universe ACTUALLY WORKS.

Gravity, itself, may have the force of contracting matter onto itself, which would imply there if there was ONLY gravity, then thee Universe would collapse. But OBVIOUSLY there is NOT gravity ONLY, just like there is NOT sunshine ONLY. So, to imagine or assume that the Universe would collapse because of gravity is just a nonsensical thing to do, from the beginning.

uwot wrote: ↑Sat Aug 07, 2021 8:20 pm
Now you want to CLAIM that I do NOT understand how gravity actually works, which OBVIOUSLY means that you BELIEVE that you do KNOW how gravity ACTUALLY works. So, will you back up and support this CLAIM of YOURS by EXPLAINING how gravity ACTUALLY works?

If yes, then great.

But if no, then WHY NOT?

Because of the ACTUAL words, which you have chosen to copy and/or write here, this is MOOT, in regards to me.

Oh, and by the way, in what part or on what page EXACTLY would we find out about how gravity works, EXACTLY? Or, better still, are you able to just copy and paste the EXACT WORDS of yours from that cartoon strip, which you think or believe EXPLAIN how gravity ACTUALLY works?

If yes, then great, and will you?

If no, then WHY NOT?

Age wrote: ↑Sun Aug 08, 2021 1:29 amLOL And I have ALREADY informed you of some of what is False, Wrong, and Incorrect in that little comic book of yours.

No Age, saying you have done something is not the same as having done it. By your own admission you don't understand my point:

Age wrote: ↑Sun Aug 08, 2021 1:29 amOh, and by the way, in what part or on what page EXACTLY would we find out about how gravity works, EXACTLY?

If you don't know which bit you have refuted, you haven't refuted it.

Age wrote: ↑Sun Aug 08, 2021 1:29 amContrary to your BELIEF "uwot", if people are STILL concluding that gravity IMPLIES the Universe WILL collapse, then these people OBVIOUSLY still do NOT YET FULLY understand how gravity ACTUALLY WORKS. This is PROVED True by the FACT that the Universe OBVIOUSLY does NOT collapse, and could NOT ever collapse, by the way.

Age, it was a mystery why the universe was not collapsing until it was realised that the universe is expanding. The big bang explains why the universe is not collapsing; this:

Age wrote: ↑Sun Aug 08, 2021 1:29 amAnd this is PROVED True by the FACT of what the Universe is fundamentally and thus essentially is made up of. Also, how the Universe ACTUALLY WORKS keeps matter contracting towards and expanding away from itself, ALWAYS.

is completely without content. It's just a meaningless string of words.

Age wrote: ↑Sun Aug 08, 2021 1:29 amWhat, to you, implies the Universe IS EXPANDING?

The fact that it can accommodate your wilful ignorance.

uwot wrote: ↑Sun Aug 08, 2021 4:41 am

Age wrote: ↑Sun Aug 08, 2021 1:29 amLOL And I have ALREADY informed you of some of what is False, Wrong, and Incorrect in that little comic book of yours.

No Age, saying you have done something is not the same as having done it. By your own admission you don't understand my point:

ONCE AGAIN, diversionary tactics do NOT refute what has ALREADY BEEN PROVED True.

uwot wrote: ↑Sun Aug 08, 2021 4:41 am

Age wrote: ↑Sun Aug 08, 2021 1:29 amOh, and by the way, in what part or on what page EXACTLY would we find out about how gravity works, EXACTLY?

If you don't know which bit you have refuted, you haven't refuted it.

I NEVER said I do NOT know which bit.

I was just PROVIDING ANOTHER EXAMPLE of HOW and WHERE I just ask you a very simple, Truly OPEN CLARIFYING QUESTION, but you will ASSUME some 'thing', which was NEVER even said, let alone implied, and then you will proceed under that False, Wrong, and Incorrect conclusion OF YOURS.

So, thank you, AGAIN.

uwot wrote: ↑Sun Aug 08, 2021 4:41 am

Age wrote: ↑Sun Aug 08, 2021 1:29 amContrary to your BELIEF "uwot", if people are STILL concluding that gravity IMPLIES the Universe WILL collapse, then these people OBVIOUSLY still do NOT YET FULLY understand how gravity ACTUALLY WORKS. This is PROVED True by the FACT that the Universe OBVIOUSLY does NOT collapse, and could NOT ever collapse, by the way.

Age, it was a mystery why the universe was not collapsing until it was realised that the universe is expanding.

But it is NOT YET PROVEN that the Universe is expanding. This is just what you, and some "others", ASSUME and BELIEVE is happening. Although NOT one of you has absolutely ANY proof for this.

You are EXACTLY like the religious. That is; you get told some thing is true, you then BELIEVE it is true, and then you become completely and utterly CLOSED to ANY thing opposing that BELIEF.

There is absolutely NO PROOF AT ALL that the Universe is expanding, nor began, but just like the religious you BELIEVE what you are told, and then, absurdly, tell "others" that; "this is true" "because it is written in a book".

Who 'realized' that the Universe is expanding, and, what is the ACTUAL PROOF for this CLAIM?

Also, if it WAS a mystery, then WHY do you STILL assume and BELIEVE that gravity IMPLIES that the Universe is collapsing.

Some would say that you STILL BELIEVING this not just IMPLIES but even PROVES that you STILL do NOT YET fully UNDERSTAND and thus KNOW how gravity ACTUALLY WORKS.

uwot wrote: ↑Sun Aug 08, 2021 4:41 am The big bang explains why the universe is not collapsing; this:

Age wrote: ↑Sun Aug 08, 2021 1:29 amAnd this is PROVED True by the FACT of what the Universe is fundamentally and thus essentially is made up of. Also, how the Universe ACTUALLY WORKS keeps matter contracting towards and expanding away from itself, ALWAYS.

is completely without content. It's just a meaningless string of words.

It is COMPLETELY WITHOUT content, for you now, because NO content is sort after, by you.

And, it is only "just a meaningless string of words", to you, while you remain wanting it to be "just a meaningless string of words".

Also, if you think or believe the string of words, "The big bang explains WHY the Universe is not collapsing", is meaningful, then the ONLY one you are FOOLING here is "yourself".

Furthermore, what ACTUAL content comes with the string of words, "The big bang explains WHY the Universe is not collapsing"?

You are continually SHOWING just how MORE BLINDED you really are here that I realized previously.

By the way, to the Truly OPEN the 'content' is already there, within the words. For ANY one who is Truly CURIOS.

uwot wrote: ↑Sun Aug 08, 2021 4:41 am

Age wrote: ↑Sun Aug 08, 2021 1:29 amWhat, to you, implies the Universe IS EXPANDING?

The fact that it can accommodate your wilful ignorance.

See, how I ask you Truly OPEN, inquisitive, CLARIFYING QUESTIONS, which are based on what you say and claim, but then are provided with absolutely NOTHING of substance, AT ALL.

And, as for who is being Truly ignorant here, then that is Truly OBVIOUS, but for some, like "yourself", then they will have to WAIT and SEE.

We are also WAITING to SEE what your answers are to:

If, to you, gravity STILL implies the Universe will collapse, then WHY, to you, does the Universe, obviously, NOT collapse?

What is 'it', which is countering gravity? What is the opposing force of gravity?

What, to you, implies the Universe IS EXPANDING?

Age wrote: ↑Sun Aug 08, 2021 5:24 am ... implies the Universe IS EXPANDING?

Read this whole comment before you reply, like a normal person would:

The red shift of galaxies in the observable universe implies that the observable universe is expanding, or at least appears to expand. Gravity is pulling things towards each other and dark energy (no one knows what this is) is pulling the observable universe apart, and the latter seems to be winning out, at least for now. We don't know if the entire universe is expanding, but the observable universe does seem to be expanding right now. (Or maybe it's constant and we are shrinking, or some other explanation.)

It was measured fairly accurately how fast the observable universe seems to be expanding, different methods give slightly different numbers, but by and large the conclusion is the same.

If you don't know what things like red shift, blue shift, absorption lines, emission lines, Hubble constant, inflation theory, dark energy etc. roughly mean then fuck off and come back when you do, and THEN reply. So far you are only proving that thee "I" doesn't even know what humans know.

Age wrote: ↑Sun Aug 08, 2021 5:24 am

uwot wrote: ↑Sun Aug 08, 2021 4:41 am

Age wrote: ↑Sun Aug 08, 2021 1:29 amLOL And I have ALREADY informed you of some of what is False, Wrong, and Incorrect in that little comic book of yours.

No Age, saying you have done something is not the same as having done it. By your own admission you don't understand my point:

ONCE AGAIN, diversionary tactics do NOT refute what has ALREADY BEEN PROVED True.

Well, again, saying you have proven something true is not the same as proving it.

Age wrote: ↑Sun Aug 08, 2021 5:24 am

uwot wrote: ↑Sun Aug 08, 2021 4:41 am

Age wrote: ↑Sun Aug 08, 2021 1:29 amOh, and by the way, in what part or on what page EXACTLY would we find out about how gravity works, EXACTLY?

If you don't know which bit you have refuted, you haven't refuted it.

I NEVER said I do NOT know which bit.

You didn't have to, it is obvious you don't understand.

Atla wrote: ↑Sun Aug 08, 2021 5:57 amSo far you are only proving that thee "I" doesn't even know what humans know.

Ah! I like it.

Atla wrote: ↑Sun Aug 08, 2021 5:57 am

Age wrote: ↑Sun Aug 08, 2021 5:24 am ... implies the Universe IS EXPANDING?

Read this whole comment before you reply, like a normal person would:

The red shift of galaxies in the observable universe implies that the observable universe is expanding, or at least appears to expand. Gravity is pulling things towards each other and dark energy (no one knows what this is) is pulling the observable universe apart, and the latter seems to be winning out, at least for now. We don't know if the entire universe is expanding, but the observable universe does seem to be expanding right now. (Or maybe it's constant and we are shrinking, or some other explanation.)

It was measured fairly accurately how fast the observable universe seems to be expanding, different methods give slightly different numbers, but by and large the conclusion is the same.

If you don't know what things like red shift, blue shift, absorption lines, emission lines, Hubble constant, inflation theory, dark energy etc. roughly mean then fuck off and come back when you do, and THEN reply. So far you are only proving that thee "I" doesn't even know what humans know.

EVERY thing you said here is ALREADY KNOWN by 'I'.

What 'you', human beings, FAIL to YET SEE and UNDERSTAND is that saying and claiming, "the observable universe is expanding" is EXTREMELY DIFFERENT to saying and claiming, "the Universe is expanding".

Until 'you', human beings can UNDERSTAND this most insanely minuscule FACT, then we can NOT move on to LOOKING AT and DISCUSSING the other FACTS about Life and thee Universe, Itself, which 'you', human beings, in the days when this is being written, STILL have NOT YET SEEN and NOTICED.

Now that 'I' have read your whole comment before 'I' replied, like a, so called, "normal person" would, below is how 'I', the "sub", "ab", or "non" "normal person" replies.

What 'red shift' ACTUALLY MEANS is DIFFERENT to what 'you', human beings, have yet so far IMPLIED it to mean through your OWN INTERPRETATIONS and ASSUMPTIONS. Also, what APPEARS to be the case is NOT always the case. The red shift of galaxies does NOT 'imply' NOR 'appear' to be ANY thing other than what 'you', human beings INTERPRET and ASSUME. The red shift of galaxies IS the EXACT representation of what IS ACTUALLY OCCURRING.

When 'you' come to WORK OUT, UNDERSTAND, and KNOW what 'that' ACTUALLY IS, then get back to me. Until then what 'that' ACTUALLY IS is WELL UNDERSTOOD and FULLY KNOWN by some of 'us', ALREADY.

Gravity is just the name used, to describe the action where matter is just naturally attracted to itself, or as some of 'you' say, "pulling things towards each other". WHAT, EXACTLY, causes that action is NOT 'gravity', itself. Again, 'gravity' is just the name given for that action.

The words 'dark energy' are like the word 'God' is. That is; they are just words, made up by 'you', human beings, used to, so call, "explain" what 'you' REALLY do NOT YET KNOW and UNDERSTAND. And, like 'you', "atla", say here, "NO one of 'you', human beings, YET KNOW what these are". 'you', human beings, have a very bad habit of coming up with words say and use, as descriptors, for those things, which you REALLY have ABSOLUTELY NO IDEA about. "big bang", "God", "dark energy", et cetera are ALL GREAT EXAMPLES of this behavior of YOURS. Some of 'you' say, "God created everything", while "others" say, "dark energy pulls the observable universe apart", YET NONE OF YOU REALLY has absolutely ANY idea of what you are ACTUALLY talking about. As can be CLEARLY SEEN and PROVEN throughout human history within story telling and writings hitherto when this was being written.

And, if only you knew just how ironic and funny your, "at least for now", remark is in relation to your, "and the latter seems to be winning out", remark, then you would not have said it, ever.

CONTRARY to YOUR BELIEF 'we' do KNOW that the entire Universe is NOT expanding. As for what the observable universe does seem to be ACTUALLY doing, "right now", then this ALL depends on how one LOOKS AT and SEES the 'observable universe'. If the 'observable universe' does seem to be expanding right now, then all well and good. The sun also did seem to be revolving around the earth, to some people. But, they ALSO did have a very narrowed and short sighted field of view of this, which, as I have been saying, is because their view/s is somewhat DISTORTED by their ALREADY GAINED and WELL MAINTAINED ASSUMPTIONS and BELIEFS about what is true, right, correct, and not.

By the way, the 'some other explanation' is MUCH BETTER, and ACTUALLY True, Real, Right, and Correct compared with the "we are shrinking" explanation.

If the measurement is 100% accurate of absolutely faulty, this has absolutely NO bearing on things here. This is because what is SOLELY and ONLY IMPORTANT here is IF the observable universe is ACTUALLY expanding or NOT. If the observable universe SEEMS to be expanding or not ALSO has absolutely NO IMPORTANCE here.

What IS ACTUALLY happening and occurring is ONLY what I LOOK AT and DISCUSS. 'you', human beings, have talked about what COULD BE for thousands upon thousands of years, and look where it has REALLY got 'you'. NO WHERE of ANY real importance nor significance. The conclusion that 'you', human beings, have arrived, no matter how accurate the numbers are, IS; "the observable universe SEEMS to be expanding". And, if that is the best 'you', human beings, can do, then just be forewarned and prepared for the FACT that 'you' can do a LOT MORE and a LOT BETTER. By the way, thank you "atla" for, as I have said previously, being FAR MORE OPEN than "others" have been here, AND, now for being able to SHOW that being FAR MORE OPEN you are ACTUALLY able to speak thee ACTUAL Truth of 'things' FAR MORE than "others" are able to here.

As for your last paragraph, we will just have to WAIT and SEE.

uwot wrote: ↑Sun Aug 08, 2021 5:59 am

Age wrote: ↑Sun Aug 08, 2021 5:24 am

uwot wrote: ↑Sun Aug 08, 2021 4:41 am No Age, saying you have done something is not the same as having done it. By your own admission you don't understand my point:

ONCE AGAIN, diversionary tactics do NOT refute what has ALREADY BEEN PROVED True.

Well, again, saying you have proven something true is not the same as proving it.

WHY do you repeat what is so OBVIOUS that it did NOT need saying the FIRST TIME?

Also, when these writings are read 'it IS PROVEN'.

See, I have ALREADY PROVEN it. But only some WILL NOTICE it and SEE it.

uwot wrote: ↑Sun Aug 08, 2021 5:59 am

Age wrote: ↑Sun Aug 08, 2021 5:24 am

uwot wrote: ↑Sun Aug 08, 2021 4:41 amIf you don't know which bit you have refuted, you haven't refuted it.

I NEVER said I do NOT know which bit.

You didn't have to, it is obvious you don't understand.

LOL As I said, SHOWING how 'you' JUMP to making ASSUMPTIONS, VERY QUICKLY, and JUMP to BELIEVING your own MADE UP ASSUMPTION, even though YOUR ASSUMPTIONS are completely and utterly Wrong, was VERY SIMPLE and VERY EASY to PROVE.

uwot wrote: ↑Sun Aug 08, 2021 6:04 am

Atla wrote: ↑Sun Aug 08, 2021 5:57 amSo far you are only proving that thee "I" doesn't even know what humans know.

Ah! I like it.

And so do 'I'.

The MORE the 'you' talks about thee 'I' here, the BETTER this becomes for ALL of 'us'.

Age wrote: ↑Sun Aug 08, 2021 9:58 am EVERY thing you said here is ALREADY KNOWN by 'I'.

What 'you', human beings, FAIL to YET SEE and UNDERSTAND is that saying and claiming, "the observable universe is expanding" is EXTREMELY DIFFERENT to saying and claiming, "the Universe is expanding".
...

Pretty much everyone with some scientific knowledge understands this, so I didn't read further. You are being a fucking idiot as usual, again you only prove that this thee "I" doesn't even know what humans know.

Atla wrote: ↑Sun Aug 08, 2021 10:10 am

Age wrote: ↑Sun Aug 08, 2021 9:58 am EVERY thing you said here is ALREADY KNOWN by 'I'.

What 'you', human beings, FAIL to YET SEE and UNDERSTAND is that saying and claiming, "the observable universe is expanding" is EXTREMELY DIFFERENT to saying and claiming, "the Universe is expanding".
...

Pretty much everyone with some scientific knowledge understands this, so I didn't read further.

Yet the actual one who I have been disputing with here continually states:
The Universe BEGAN and IS EXPANDING.

Also, you advice and instruct:
Read this whole comment before you reply, like a normal person would:

But yet you do the EXACT OPPOSITE of what you INSTRUCT "others" to do. So, make of this as you will.

Atla wrote: ↑Sun Aug 08, 2021 10:10 am You are being a fucking idiot as usual, again you only prove that this thee "I" doesn't even know what humans know.

Okay. But AGAIN we will have to WAIT and SEE.

Age wrote: ↑Sun Aug 08, 2021 11:16 am

Atla wrote: ↑Sun Aug 08, 2021 10:10 am

Age wrote: ↑Sun Aug 08, 2021 9:58 am EVERY thing you said here is ALREADY KNOWN by 'I'.

What 'you', human beings, FAIL to YET SEE and UNDERSTAND is that saying and claiming, "the observable universe is expanding" is EXTREMELY DIFFERENT to saying and claiming, "the Universe is expanding".
...

Pretty much everyone with some scientific knowledge understands this, so I didn't read further.

Yet the actual one who I have been disputing with here continually states:
The Universe BEGAN and IS EXPANDING.

Also, you advice and instruct:
Read this whole comment before you reply, like a normal person would:

But yet you do the EXACT OPPOSITE of what you INSTRUCT "others" to do. So, make of this as you will.

Atla wrote: ↑Sun Aug 08, 2021 10:10 am You are being a fucking idiot as usual, again you only prove that this thee "I" doesn't even know what humans know.

Okay. But AGAIN we will have to WAIT and SEE.

Well you can wait alone heh.

Atla wrote: ↑Sun Aug 08, 2021 11:47 am

Age wrote: ↑Sun Aug 08, 2021 11:16 am

Atla wrote: ↑Sun Aug 08, 2021 10:10 am
Pretty much everyone with some scientific knowledge understands this, so I didn't read further.

Yet the actual one who I have been disputing with here continually states:
The Universe BEGAN and IS EXPANDING.

Also, you advice and instruct:
Read this whole comment before you reply, like a normal person would:

But yet you do the EXACT OPPOSITE of what you INSTRUCT "others" to do. So, make of this as you will.

Atla wrote: ↑Sun Aug 08, 2021 10:10 am You are being a fucking idiot as usual, again you only prove that this thee "I" doesn't even know what humans know.

Okay. But AGAIN we will have to WAIT and SEE.

Well you can wait alone heh.

If you say so.

But this is only more detractor tactics, which just continually takes us away from the FACT that thee Universe, Itself, IS, and can ONLY BE, infinite and eternal.

The idea and notion that the Universe BEGAN and IS EXPANDING is OBVIOUSLY just RIDICULOUS and ABSURD.

Basing an idea, and BELIEVING it, on absolutely NOTHING substantial AT ALL is ABSURDITY in its PUREST FORM.