Philosophy Now Forum

So, go ahead, those who reject my (and hq's and IC's) perspective - I'll stand back and let you off the ropes, so long as you, in turn, make an effort to strike some meaningful blows of your own against one or more of the many evidential/argumentative points reiterated above. Otherwise... well...

Do you ever go to a lecture where someone presents his/her ideas about some subject?

And then he/she takes some questions about what was said.

The people in the audience don't "strike blows" at the lecturer.

Harry Baird wrote: ↑Thu Aug 25, 2022 2:42 pm

BigMike wrote: ↑Thu Aug 25, 2022 2:25 pm

henry quirk wrote: ↑Thu Aug 25, 2022 2:09 pm As I say just above in my edit...

Anyway: enough of this.

Back to what is, for me, the question: how do electrons, neutrons, and protons, unconscious as they are, come together to make consciousness?

Anyone?

By logic.

Kindly describe that logic. Thanks.

Logic takes a certain number of inputs and gives an output based on what those inputs are. Read up on Alpha Zero for a more detailed explanation.

phyllo wrote: ↑Thu Aug 25, 2022 2:52 pm The people in the audience don't "strike blows" at the lecturer.

Yar, well, like I said, in my view, BigMike is much more culpable in the "rope-a-dope" respect than you. I think he's much more the ideologue whereas you're much more the legitimate inquirer - but I don't know you very well, so that's very much a provisional assessment.

You seem to believe that a philosophy discussion is some sort of conflict.

Henry quirk asked: "how do electrons, neutrons, and protons, unconscious as they are, come together to make consciousness?"

The big fella responded: "By logic."

I asked the big fella to "Kindly describe that logic. Thanks."

The big fella responded: "Logic takes a certain number of inputs and gives an output based on what those inputs are."

Ah, yeah but nah: I'm not seeing any consciousness there, big fella, just mindless transformations. (Is that the best you've got? Keep swinging, big fella). Care to try again?

phyllo wrote: ↑Thu Aug 25, 2022 3:03 pm You seem to believe that a philosophy discussion is some sort of conflict.

Haha. Often enough, it is. As an intelligent person, you're obviously not oblivious to this. So...

Harry Baird wrote: ↑Thu Aug 25, 2022 3:04 pm Henry quirk asked: "how do electrons, neutrons, and protons, unconscious as they are, come together to make consciousness?"

The big fella responded: "By logic."

I asked the big fella to "Kindly describe that logic. Thanks."

The big fella responded: "Logic takes a certain number of inputs and gives an output based on what those inputs are."

Ah, yeah but nah: I'm not seeing any consciousness there, big fella, just mindless transformations. (Is that the best you've got? Keep swinging, big fella). Care to try again?

I don't see it either. What is it anyway? What more do you need?

Harry Baird wrote: ↑Thu Aug 25, 2022 3:04 pm

phyllo wrote: ↑Thu Aug 25, 2022 3:03 pm You seem to believe that a philosophy discussion is some sort of conflict.

Haha. Often enough, it is. As an intelligent person, you're obviously not oblivious to this. So...

It doesn't have to be. And nothing is gained by making it a conflict.

BigMike wrote: ↑Thu Aug 25, 2022 3:08 pm

Harry Baird wrote: ↑Thu Aug 25, 2022 3:04 pm Henry quirk asked: "how do electrons, neutrons, and protons, unconscious as they are, come together to make consciousness?"

The big fella responded: "By logic."

I asked the big fella to "Kindly describe that logic. Thanks."

The big fella responded: "Logic takes a certain number of inputs and gives an output based on what those inputs are."

Ah, yeah but nah: I'm not seeing any consciousness there, big fella, just mindless transformations. (Is that the best you've got? Keep swinging, big fella). Care to try again?

I don't see it either.

Great. No worries. I accept your concession of defeat: that you can't, despite your best attempt, explain how electrons, neutrons, and protons, unconscious as they are, come together to make consciousness. No doubt, hq will accept your concession too.

Game over. Thanks for playing.

phyllo wrote: ↑Thu Aug 25, 2022 3:10 pm

Harry Baird wrote: ↑Thu Aug 25, 2022 3:04 pm

phyllo wrote: ↑Thu Aug 25, 2022 3:03 pm You seem to believe that a philosophy discussion is some sort of conflict.

Haha. Often enough, it is. As an intelligent person, you're obviously not oblivious to this. So...

It doesn't have to be. And nothing is gained by making it a conflict.

True in the ideal, but when some guy brings the aggro, what are you gonna do? Roll over?

Harry Baird wrote: ↑Thu Aug 25, 2022 3:15 pm

phyllo wrote: ↑Thu Aug 25, 2022 3:10 pm

Harry Baird wrote: ↑Thu Aug 25, 2022 3:04 pm

Haha. Often enough, it is. As an intelligent person, you're obviously not oblivious to this. So...

It doesn't have to be. And nothing is gained by making it a conflict.

True in the ideal, but when some guy brings the aggro, what are you gonna do? Roll over?

You're not bringing "the aggro"?

You're not feeding it as much as the other guy?

phyllo wrote: ↑Thu Aug 25, 2022 3:17 pm

Harry Baird wrote: ↑Thu Aug 25, 2022 3:15 pm

phyllo wrote: ↑Thu Aug 25, 2022 3:10 pm
It doesn't have to be. And nothing is gained by making it a conflict.

True in the ideal, but when some guy brings the aggro, what are you gonna do? Roll over?

You're not bringing "the aggro"?

You're not feeding it as much as the other guy?

Sure, I give as good as I get. I'll add this in my defence: I don't think that misinformation or nonsense should be tolerated on a philosophy forum, which ostensibly is dedicated to the pursuit of truth. If any participant is going to submit misinformation or nonsense, then it's fair to call them out on it.

BigMike wrote: ↑Thu Aug 25, 2022 2:32 pm “The true object of the physical sciences is not the search for primary causes [i.e. God] but the search for laws according to which phenomenon are produced.”

Yes, so, please, lay out or state the laws undergirdin' electrons, neutrons, and protons, unconscious as they are, comin' together to make consciousness.

Harry Baird wrote: ↑Thu Aug 25, 2022 3:14 pm

BigMike wrote: ↑Thu Aug 25, 2022 3:08 pm

Harry Baird wrote: ↑Thu Aug 25, 2022 3:04 pm Henry quirk asked: "how do electrons, neutrons, and protons, unconscious as they are, come together to make consciousness?"

The big fella responded: "By logic."

I asked the big fella to "Kindly describe that logic. Thanks."

The big fella responded: "Logic takes a certain number of inputs and gives an output based on what those inputs are."

Ah, yeah but nah: I'm not seeing any consciousness there, big fella, just mindless transformations. (Is that the best you've got? Keep swinging, big fella). Care to try again?

I don't see it either.

Great. No worries. I accept your concession of defeat: that you can't, despite your best attempt, explain how electrons, neutrons, and protons, unconscious as they are, come together to make consciousness. No doubt, *hq will accept your concession too.

Game over. Thanks for playing.

*Yep.

All I wanna know: how is it you, if you're comprised of nuthin' but unconscious electrons, protons, and neutrons, can stare at your device screen, read, understand, and be moved (be angry or triumphant or uncomfortable or whatever it is you're feelin') and know it. You're (self) conscious and, somehow, you say, this is solely becuz of unconscious particles.

You know how electrons, protons, and neutrons, unconscious as they are, make consciousness, or you don't.

If you do: please, tell me.

If you don't: admit it and concede the possibility there are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy.