Philosophy Now Forum

Age wrote: ↑Sun Dec 11, 2022 12:09 am

popeye1945 wrote: ↑Sat Dec 10, 2022 8:42 pm With complete loss of memory there is still a basic identification with an anonymous I. Where you do not know who you are or who anyone else is, you just know that you're alive and it feels pretty dam good.

Some people with 'loss of memory' appear to get 'confused' and/or somewhat 'irritable', which, from what I have observed, is NOT that so-called 'dam good' AT ALL.

popeye1945 wrote: ↑Sun Dec 11, 2022 12:30 am

Age wrote: ↑Sun Dec 11, 2022 12:09 am

popeye1945 wrote: ↑Sat Dec 10, 2022 8:42 pm With complete loss of memory there is still a basic identification with an anonymous I. Where you do not know who you are or who anyone else is, you just know that you're alive and it feels pretty dam good.

Some people with 'loss of memory' appear to get 'confused' and/or somewhat 'irritable', which, from what I have observed, is NOT that so-called 'dam good' AT ALL.

My personal experience was having repeated experiences but relatively brief before memory came flooding back to me.

popeye1945 wrote: ↑Sun Dec 11, 2022 12:30 am The initial experience is feeling the vitality of life with no burdens of memory to define who or what you are.

popeye1945 wrote: ↑Sun Dec 11, 2022 12:30 am It is briefly having some weight taken off.

popeye1945 wrote: ↑Sun Dec 11, 2022 12:30 am Lasting for a longer period no doubt would be alarming, complete disorientation,

popeye1945 wrote: ↑Sun Dec 11, 2022 12:30 am but it would still be an anonymous I that is disoriented and certainly in the long-term unpleasant.

Age wrote: ↑Sun Dec 11, 2022 12:07 am

Belinda wrote: ↑Sat Dec 10, 2022 1:06 pm

Age wrote: ↑Sat Dec 10, 2022 11:40 am

And, if 'I' was to ask 'you' what are these 'mind' things, EXACTLY, and WHERE do they exist, EXACTLY, then what would 'your' answers BE?

Also, do NOT forget that ALL of 'them' MUST OF BEEN EXISTING BEFORE the 'whole world' WAS CREATED.



But HOW, EXACTLY, could a so-called 'bundle of experiences' EXIST BEFORE there was even a 'whole world' EXISTING.

I suggest BEFORE 'you', human beings, even BEGIN to START making CLAIMS that 'you' OBTAIN IRREFUTABLE PROOF BEFORE 'you' make the CLAIMS PUBLIC.


You are WELCOME.

I do this out of ENJOYMENT so there is REALLY NOTHING to thank me for here.



Who and/or what does the 'we' word refer to here, EXACTLY?

Touche! I'd better have written "experiences are all that can be known."

To 'me', this makes far more sense.

This also translates to, 'ALL knowledge comes from past experiences', which is an irrefutable Fact as being the reason why to NEVER 'blame' ANY one if they do NOT YET KNOW some 'thing'. If 'one' has NEVER 'experienced' some 'thing', then HOW, EXACTLY, could that 'one' EVER be EXPECTED to KNOW or 'it' or have ANY actual 'knowledge' about 'it'. For example, I would NEVER EXPECT 'you', adult human beings, in the days when this is being written to KNOW or have ANY knowledge AT ALL about HOW to live in Peace and in Harmony with one "another", as One, BECAUSE absolutely NONE of 'you' have 'experienced' this 'way of life' YET. The EXACT SAME as I would NEVER EXPECT previous to these days when this is being written the human beings, back then, to KNOW or have ANY knowledge of living with computers and the internet, flying machines, motor vehicles, electricity, and all of the other 'things' and 'way of living' that 'you', human beings, are continuing CREATING, and LEARNING about.

See, I could NEVER, REALLY, FULLY EXPLAIN, SUCCESSFULLY, to 'you', human beings, about how 'you' WILL BE, soon enough, living with the internet, airplanes, space rockets, satellites, cell phones, videos, global positioning systems, robots, artificial intelligence, and self driving cars before what is called the 1900's. I would NEVER EXPECT 'them' to UNDERSTAND FULLY. EXACTLY like I do NOT EXPECT 'you', human beings, in the days when this is being written to FULLY UNDERSTAND how 'you' WILL BE, very soon enough, living in a Truly Peaceful AND Harmonious 'world' WITH "one another" as One. It will ONLY be when 'young children' living WITHIN this 'way of life', and when babies are born into this EXACT 'way of life', that 'they' will THEN 'experience' this 'way of life and living', and so WILL LEARN 'this way of life and living', and this will will NOT ONLY BECOME KNOWN, but will be TAUGHT, Naturally, to the 'young', who WILL, AGAIN Naturally, pass on this 'knowledge', and KNOWING, 'way of life' onto ALL future generations, who WILL have 'this' KNOWING and 'knowledge', Naturally. Also, ALL of these 'future generations' will come to think or BELIEVE that they could NOT live WITHOUT Peace and WITHOUT Harmony, just like ALL of the 'younger human beings' and 'older children' 'now', in the day that this IS written think or BELIEVE that they could NOT live WITHOUT their phones and the internet.

'Past experiences' of a human body, literally, becomes what is KNOWN, or 'knowledge', which is stored with, or within, the brain, as 'thoughts', themselves.

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Sun Dec 11, 2022 2:54 pm At the level of knowledge, the understanding will reflect what is obvious through observation or through learning. At the level of wisdom, the understanding will reflect that which can never be observed, can never be learnt and can never be taught.

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Sun Dec 11, 2022 2:54 pm Life is always one step ahead of the human mind.

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Sun Dec 11, 2022 2:54 pm So you can never know what will be done before it happens.

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Sun Dec 11, 2022 2:54 pm So this wisdom of life that the knowledge of human actions is illusory and not real.

Age wrote: ↑Sun Dec 11, 2022 1:02 am

popeye1945 wrote: ↑Sun Dec 11, 2022 12:30 am

Age wrote: ↑Sun Dec 11, 2022 12:09 am

Some people with 'loss of memory' appear to get 'confused' and/or somewhat 'irritable', which, from what I have observed, is NOT that so-called 'dam good' AT ALL.

My personal experience was having repeated experiences but relatively brief before memory came flooding back to me.

While being 'awake' and 'aware', without 'thought', as 'you' are saying and explaining here, 'memory' is just 'thought' after all, I found to be the most Truly BLISSFUL 'experience'.

popeye1945 wrote: ↑Sun Dec 11, 2022 12:30 am The initial experience is feeling the vitality of life with no burdens of memory to define who or what you are.

Some just call this 'thought free Awareness'.

But I found that AFTER I KNEW what thee ACTUAL and IRREFUTABLE answer to the question, Who am 'I'?' IS EXACTLY, that I can NOW 'feel' the ABSOLUTE VITALITY of ALL of Life, WITH 'memory'. But, as 'you' were SAYING, WITHOUT the 'memory/thoughts' the experience is PURE BLISS.

However, I have found and learned that 'memory', or 'thoughts' of the past, provide 'I' with ACTUAL PROOF, which is necessary to KNOW 'things', FOR SURE.

I, NOW, do NOT use 'memory/thought', first, to LOOK AT and SEE 'the world', because of the 'disorientation' and 'distortion' doing so can cause and create, so INSTEAD I LOOK AT and SEE 'the world' in 'thought free Awareness', or just through thee Truly OPEN Mind, and THEN use 'past experiences', 'thought', or 'memory' to VERIFY or DISPROVE what I am LOOKING AT and/or OBSERVING.

popeye1945 wrote: ↑Sun Dec 11, 2022 12:30 am It is briefly having some weight taken off.

But there is only 'weight', or 'confusion', there in 'you' because 'you' do NOT YET KNOW who NOR what 'you' NOR 'I' am, EXACTLY.

But 'you' are Right the 'weight' is TAKEN OFF when just NOT 'thinking', and there is NO 'memory', and so NO 'thing' to DISTRACT, nor DISTORT, thee ACTUAL BEAUTY of 'living', and 'being alive', itself.

popeye1945 wrote: ↑Sun Dec 11, 2022 12:30 am Lasting for a longer period no doubt would be alarming, complete disorientation,

But in absolute 'thought free Awareness' there is NO disorientation AT ALL. This is because there is ONLY absolute Awareness, happening.

It is the actual False, Wrong, or Incorrect 'thought' or 'thinking', in other words, it is having 'memory', which do NOT answer questions, like, for example, who am I? which is what causes confusion, distortion, distraction, and disorientation here.

popeye1945 wrote: ↑Sun Dec 11, 2022 12:30 am but it would still be an anonymous I that is disoriented and certainly in the long-term unpleasant.

Yes it was for 'me' too. That was, UNTIL these 'things' here become MUCH CLEARER and/or absolutely CRYSTAL CLEAR, one of which was; Coming-to-KNOW thy 'I', which HAD BEEN completely 'anonymous', PREVIOUSLY.

By the way "popeye1945", THANK YOU for the further explanation and elaboration. This further explanation/elaboration made, what you said previous, far CLEARER and made far MORE SENSE to 'me' now.

Age wrote: ↑Sun Dec 11, 2022 3:44 pm
HOW do 'you' KNOW?

popeye1945 wrote: ↑Sun Dec 11, 2022 3:59 pm

Age wrote: ↑Sun Dec 11, 2022 1:02 am

popeye1945 wrote: ↑Sun Dec 11, 2022 12:30 am

My personal experience was having repeated experiences but relatively brief before memory came flooding back to me.

While being 'awake' and 'aware', without 'thought', as 'you' are saying and explaining here, 'memory' is just 'thought' after all, I found to be the most Truly BLISSFUL 'experience'.

popeye1945 wrote: ↑Sun Dec 11, 2022 12:30 am The initial experience is feeling the vitality of life with no burdens of memory to define who or what you are.

Some just call this 'thought free Awareness'.

But I found that AFTER I KNEW what thee ACTUAL and IRREFUTABLE answer to the question, Who am 'I'?' IS EXACTLY, that I can NOW 'feel' the ABSOLUTE VITALITY of ALL of Life, WITH 'memory'. But, as 'you' were SAYING, WITHOUT the 'memory/thoughts' the experience is PURE BLISS.

However, I have found and learned that 'memory', or 'thoughts' of the past, provide 'I' with ACTUAL PROOF, which is necessary to KNOW 'things', FOR SURE.

I, NOW, do NOT use 'memory/thought', first, to LOOK AT and SEE 'the world', because of the 'disorientation' and 'distortion' doing so can cause and create, so INSTEAD I LOOK AT and SEE 'the world' in 'thought free Awareness', or just through thee Truly OPEN Mind, and THEN use 'past experiences', 'thought', or 'memory' to VERIFY or DISPROVE what I am LOOKING AT and/or OBSERVING.

popeye1945 wrote: ↑Sun Dec 11, 2022 12:30 am It is briefly having some weight taken off.

But there is only 'weight', or 'confusion', there in 'you' because 'you' do NOT YET KNOW who NOR what 'you' NOR 'I' am, EXACTLY.

But 'you' are Right the 'weight' is TAKEN OFF when just NOT 'thinking', and there is NO 'memory', and so NO 'thing' to DISTRACT, nor DISTORT, thee ACTUAL BEAUTY of 'living', and 'being alive', itself.

popeye1945 wrote: ↑Sun Dec 11, 2022 12:30 am Lasting for a longer period no doubt would be alarming, complete disorientation,

But in absolute 'thought free Awareness' there is NO disorientation AT ALL. This is because there is ONLY absolute Awareness, happening.

It is the actual False, Wrong, or Incorrect 'thought' or 'thinking', in other words, it is having 'memory', which do NOT answer questions, like, for example, who am I? which is what causes confusion, distortion, distraction, and disorientation here.

popeye1945 wrote: ↑Sun Dec 11, 2022 12:30 am but it would still be an anonymous I that is disoriented and certainly in the long-term unpleasant.

Yes it was for 'me' too. That was, UNTIL these 'things' here become MUCH CLEARER and/or absolutely CRYSTAL CLEAR, one of which was; Coming-to-KNOW thy 'I', which HAD BEEN completely 'anonymous', PREVIOUSLY.

By the way "popeye1945", THANK YOU for the further explanation and elaboration. This further explanation/elaboration made, what you said previous, far CLEARER and made far MORE SENSE to 'me' now.

In reaching to know the I what did you discern other than pure experience?

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Sun Dec 11, 2022 4:05 pm

Age wrote: ↑Sun Dec 11, 2022 3:44 pm
HOW do 'you' KNOW?

The ocean of all that is, was and ever will be, never asks itself HOW. All that is, was and ever will be, is just 'what is' self-evidently without beginning nor end.

The ocean of all that is never turns from it's waves. The waves turn from the ocean of all that is 'apparently'

Age wrote: ↑Tue Dec 13, 2022 12:03 am

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Sun Dec 11, 2022 4:05 pm

Age wrote: ↑Sun Dec 11, 2022 3:44 pm
HOW do 'you' KNOW?

The ocean of all that is, was and ever will be, never asks itself HOW. All that is, was and ever will be, is just 'what is' self-evidently without beginning nor end.

The ocean of all that is never turns from it's waves. The waves turn from the ocean of all that is 'apparently'

In other words, 'you', the one here known as "dontaskme" does NOT know, and is, OBVIOUSLY, here just 'trying to' DEFLECT.

What is ALSO CLEAR here is that 'you' have CHOSEN a very appropriate username here, so that 'you' feel FREE to express WHATEVER 'you' want, and CLAIM to be true, while also holding some BELIEF that 'you' should NOT be questioned NOR challenged over YOUR CLAIMS.

Also. 'I', the so-called 'ocean of all that is', was NEVER asking thy 'Self' HOW. As can be CLEARLY SEEN, 'as light is day', as some might say, 'I' was asking 'you'.

Can 'you' SPOT, and SEE, THE DIFFERENCE?

popeye1945 wrote: ↑Sun Dec 11, 2022 3:59 pm

Age wrote: ↑Sun Dec 11, 2022 1:02 am

popeye1945 wrote: ↑Sun Dec 11, 2022 12:30 am

My personal experience was having repeated experiences but relatively brief before memory came flooding back to me.

While being 'awake' and 'aware', without 'thought', as 'you' are saying and explaining here, 'memory' is just 'thought' after all, I found to be the most Truly BLISSFUL 'experience'.

popeye1945 wrote: ↑Sun Dec 11, 2022 12:30 am The initial experience is feeling the vitality of life with no burdens of memory to define who or what you are.

Some just call this 'thought free Awareness'.

But I found that AFTER I KNEW what thee ACTUAL and IRREFUTABLE answer to the question, Who am 'I'?' IS EXACTLY, that I can NOW 'feel' the ABSOLUTE VITALITY of ALL of Life, WITH 'memory'. But, as 'you' were SAYING, WITHOUT the 'memory/thoughts' the experience is PURE BLISS.

However, I have found and learned that 'memory', or 'thoughts' of the past, provide 'I' with ACTUAL PROOF, which is necessary to KNOW 'things', FOR SURE.

I, NOW, do NOT use 'memory/thought', first, to LOOK AT and SEE 'the world', because of the 'disorientation' and 'distortion' doing so can cause and create, so INSTEAD I LOOK AT and SEE 'the world' in 'thought free Awareness', or just through thee Truly OPEN Mind, and THEN use 'past experiences', 'thought', or 'memory' to VERIFY or DISPROVE what I am LOOKING AT and/or OBSERVING.

popeye1945 wrote: ↑Sun Dec 11, 2022 12:30 am It is briefly having some weight taken off.

But there is only 'weight', or 'confusion', there in 'you' because 'you' do NOT YET KNOW who NOR what 'you' NOR 'I' am, EXACTLY.

But 'you' are Right the 'weight' is TAKEN OFF when just NOT 'thinking', and there is NO 'memory', and so NO 'thing' to DISTRACT, nor DISTORT, thee ACTUAL BEAUTY of 'living', and 'being alive', itself.

popeye1945 wrote: ↑Sun Dec 11, 2022 12:30 am Lasting for a longer period no doubt would be alarming, complete disorientation,

But in absolute 'thought free Awareness' there is NO disorientation AT ALL. This is because there is ONLY absolute Awareness, happening.

It is the actual False, Wrong, or Incorrect 'thought' or 'thinking', in other words, it is having 'memory', which do NOT answer questions, like, for example, who am I? which is what causes confusion, distortion, distraction, and disorientation here.

popeye1945 wrote: ↑Sun Dec 11, 2022 12:30 am but it would still be an anonymous I that is disoriented and certainly in the long-term unpleasant.

Yes it was for 'me' too. That was, UNTIL these 'things' here become MUCH CLEARER and/or absolutely CRYSTAL CLEAR, one of which was; Coming-to-KNOW thy 'I', which HAD BEEN completely 'anonymous', PREVIOUSLY.

By the way "popeye1945", THANK YOU for the further explanation and elaboration. This further explanation/elaboration made, what you said previous, far CLEARER and made far MORE SENSE to 'me' now.

In reaching to know the I what did you discern other than pure experience?

Belinda wrote: ↑Tue Dec 13, 2022 12:48 pm

popeye1945 wrote: ↑Sun Dec 11, 2022 3:59 pm

Age wrote: ↑Sun Dec 11, 2022 1:02 am

While being 'awake' and 'aware', without 'thought', as 'you' are saying and explaining here, 'memory' is just 'thought' after all, I found to be the most Truly BLISSFUL 'experience'.



Some just call this 'thought free Awareness'.

But I found that AFTER I KNEW what the ACTUAL and IRREFUTABLE answer to the question, who am 'I'?' IS EXACTLY, that I can NOW 'feel' the ABSOLUTE VITALITY of ALL of Life, WITH 'memory'. But, as 'you' were SAYING, WITHOUT the 'memory/thoughts' the experience is PURE BLISS.

However, I have found and learned that 'memory', or 'thoughts' of the past, provide 'I' with ACTUAL PROOF, which is necessary to KNOW 'things', FOR SURE.

I, NOW, do NOT use 'memory/thought', first, to LOOK AT and SEE 'the world', because of the 'disorientation' and 'distortion' doing so can cause and create, so INSTEAD I LOOK AT and SEE 'the world' in 'thought free Awareness', or just through thee Truly OPEN Mind, and THEN use 'past experiences', 'thought', or 'memory' to VERIFY or DISPROVE what I am LOOKING AT and/or OBSERVING.



But there is only 'weight', or 'confusion', there in 'you' because 'you' do NOT YET KNOW who NOR what 'you' NOR 'I' am, EXACTLY.

But 'you' are Right the 'weight' is TAKEN OFF when just NOT 'thinking', and there is NO 'memory', and so NO 'thing' to DISTRACT, nor DISTORT, the ACTUAL BEAUTY of 'living', and 'being alive', itself.


But in absolute 'thought free Awareness' there is NO disorientation AT ALL. This is because there is ONLY absolute Awareness, happening.

It is the actual False, Wrong, or Incorrect 'thought' or 'thinking', in other words, it is having 'memory', which do NOT answer questions, like, for example, who am I? which is what causes confusion, distortion, distraction, and disorientation here.


Yes it was for 'me' too. That was, UNTIL these 'things' here become MUCH CLEARER and/or absolutely CRYSTAL CLEAR, one of which was Coming-to-KNOW thy 'I', which HAD BEEN completely 'anonymous', PREVIOUSLY.

By the way "popeye1945", THANK YOU for the further explanation and elaboration. This further explanation/elaboration made, what you said previously, far CLEARER and made far MORE SENSE to 'me' now.

In reaching to know the I what did you discern other than pure experience?

Popeye is so right! Popeye takes Descartes's method of skepticism and does not fall into Descartes's error of presuming the ego within cogito and sum.

Age wrote: ↑Sun Dec 11, 2022 1:02 am

popeye1945 wrote: ↑Sun Dec 11, 2022 12:30 am

Age wrote: ↑Sun Dec 11, 2022 12:09 am

Some people with 'loss of memory' appear to get 'confused' and/or somewhat 'irritable', which, from what I have observed, is NOT that so-called 'dam good' AT ALL.

My personal experience was having repeated experiences but relatively brief before memory came flooding back to me.

While being 'awake' and 'aware', without 'thought', as 'you' are saying and explaining here, 'memory' is just 'thought' after all, I found to be the most Truly BLISSFUL 'experience'.

popeye1945 wrote: ↑Sun Dec 11, 2022 12:30 am The initial experience is feeling the vitality of life with no burdens of memory to define who or what you are.

Some just call this 'thought free Awareness'.

But I found that AFTER I KNEW what thee ACTUAL and IRREFUTABLE answer to the question, Who am 'I'?' IS EXACTLY, that I can NOW 'feel' the ABSOLUTE VITALITY of ALL of Life, WITH 'memory'. But, as 'you' were SAYING, WITHOUT the 'memory/thoughts' the experience is PURE BLISS.

However, I have found and learned that 'memory', or 'thoughts' of the past, provide 'I' with ACTUAL PROOF, which is necessary to KNOW 'things', FOR SURE.

I, NOW, do NOT use 'memory/thought', first, to LOOK AT and SEE 'the world', because of the 'disorientation' and 'distortion' doing so can cause and create, so INSTEAD I LOOK AT and SEE 'the world' in 'thought free Awareness', or just through thee Truly OPEN Mind, and THEN use 'past experiences', 'thought', or 'memory' to VERIFY or DISPROVE what I am LOOKING AT and/or OBSERVING.

popeye1945 wrote: ↑Sun Dec 11, 2022 12:30 am It is briefly having some weight taken off.

But there is only 'weight', or 'confusion', there in 'you' because 'you' do NOT YET KNOW who NOR what 'you' NOR 'I' am, EXACTLY.

But 'you' are Right the 'weight' is TAKEN OFF when just NOT 'thinking', and there is NO 'memory', and so NO 'thing' to DISTRACT, nor DISTORT, thee ACTUAL BEAUTY of 'living', and 'being alive', itself.

popeye1945 wrote: ↑Sun Dec 11, 2022 12:30 am Lasting for a longer period no doubt would be alarming, complete disorientation,

But in absolute 'thought free Awareness' there is NO disorientation AT ALL. This is because there is ONLY absolute Awareness, happening.

It is the actual False, Wrong, or Incorrect 'thought' or 'thinking', in other words, it is having 'memory', which do NOT answer questions, like, for example, who am I? which is what causes confusion, distortion, distraction, and disorientation here.

popeye1945 wrote: ↑Sun Dec 11, 2022 12:30 am but it would still be an anonymous I that is disoriented and certainly in the long-term unpleasant.

Yes it was for 'me' too. That was, UNTIL these 'things' here become MUCH CLEARER and/or absolutely CRYSTAL CLEAR, one of which was; Coming-to-KNOW thy 'I', which HAD BEEN completely 'anonymous', PREVIOUSLY.

By the way "popeye1945", THANK YOU for the further explanation and elaboration. This further explanation/elaboration made, what you said previous, far CLEARER and made far MORE SENSE to 'me' now.

popeye1945 wrote: ↑Wed Dec 14, 2022 1:26 pm

Belinda wrote: ↑Tue Dec 13, 2022 12:48 pm

popeye1945 wrote: ↑Sun Dec 11, 2022 3:59 pm

In reaching to know the I what did you discern other than pure experience?

Popeye is so right! Popeye takes Descartes's method of skepticism and does not fall into Descartes's error of presuming the ego within cogito and sum.

The essence of I is life and the I /essence belongs to all creatures. Thanks for the input, Belinda. You clarified it for me as well!!

Age wrote: ↑Tue Dec 13, 2022 12:03 am
What is ALSO CLEAR here is that 'you' have CHOSEN a very appropriate username here, so that 'you' feel FREE to express WHATEVER 'you' want, and CLAIM to be true, while also holding some BELIEF that 'you' should NOT be questioned NOR challenged over YOUR CLAIMS.