Philosophy Now Forum

Eodnhoj7 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 05, 2021 10:27 pm

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Mon Jul 05, 2021 10:16 pm

Eodnhoj7 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 05, 2021 8:50 pm

Then define them.

"Epiphenomenalism is the view that mental events are caused by physical events in the brain, but have no effects upon any physical events. Behavior is caused by muscles that contract upon receiving neural impulses, and neural impulses are generated by input from other neurons or from sense organs. On the epiphenomenalist view, mental events play no causal role in this process." (Stanford)

I guess your Google is broken.

There is no true epiphenomenon.

Well, that you will have to prove to the Physicalists. Me, I find it uninteresting.

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Mon Jul 05, 2021 10:45 pm

Eodnhoj7 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 05, 2021 10:23 pm 1. And where is this false dichotomy?

I"ve already answered that.

If you can't see it, then you can't see it. It's still there.

You failed to answer the other questions thus are diverting the point.

Free will and determinism are intermingled.

All phenomenon as caused by another phenomenon reduce to a first cause which is uncaused thus resulting in all expressions of being as being free.

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Mon Jul 05, 2021 10:47 pm

Eodnhoj7 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 05, 2021 10:27 pm

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Mon Jul 05, 2021 10:16 pm
"Epiphenomenalism is the view that mental events are caused by physical events in the brain, but have no effects upon any physical events. Behavior is caused by muscles that contract upon receiving neural impulses, and neural impulses are generated by input from other neurons or from sense organs. On the epiphenomenalist view, mental events play no causal role in this process." (Stanford)

I guess your Google is broken.

There is no true epiphenomenon.

Well, that you will have to prove to the Physicalists. Me, I find it uninteresting.

Then why bother talking about epiphenomena?

Thought results in thought. A thought is tied to neural impulses. Neural impulses result from one thought causing another thus a thought results in physical changes.

Eodnhoj7 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 05, 2021 10:49 pm

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Mon Jul 05, 2021 10:45 pm

Eodnhoj7 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 05, 2021 10:23 pm 1. And where is this false dichotomy?

I"ve already answered that.

If you can't see it, then you can't see it. It's still there.

You failed to answer the other questions...

That's only because I find them ridiculous.

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Mon Jul 05, 2021 10:58 pm

Eodnhoj7 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 05, 2021 10:49 pm

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Mon Jul 05, 2021 10:45 pm
I"ve already answered that.

If you can't see it, then you can't see it. It's still there.

You failed to answer the other questions...

That's only because I find them ridiculous.

That is because nothing lies behind the first cause. It is uncaused thus acausal.

Eodnhoj7 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 05, 2021 10:59 pm That is because nothing lies behind the first cause. It is uncaused thus acausal.

I already showed you this was a false dichotomy. You can go back and read that again, I guess.

You don't get it. I can see that.

I've tried. I can think of no simpler ways to put it for you.

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Mon Jul 05, 2021 11:50 pm

Eodnhoj7 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 05, 2021 10:59 pm That is because nothing lies behind the first cause. It is uncaused thus acausal.

I already showed you this was a false dichotomy. You can go back and read that again, I guess.

You don't get it. I can see that.

I've tried. I can think of no simpler ways to put it for you.

It is not a false dichotomy and you did not prove it as such. Acausality and causality both exist at the same time in different respects given the first cause is uncaused.

You don't get it. I can see that.

So let me put it in simpler terms....what is behind the first cause?

Eodnhoj7 wrote: ↑Tue Jul 06, 2021 2:21 am

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Mon Jul 05, 2021 11:50 pm

Eodnhoj7 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 05, 2021 10:59 pm That is because nothing lies behind the first cause. It is uncaused thus acausal.

I already showed you this was a false dichotomy. You can go back and read that again, I guess.

You don't get it. I can see that.

I've tried. I can think of no simpler ways to put it for you.

It is not a false dichotomy and you did not prove it as such.

Yeah, it is, and yeah, I did.

I can show it to you, and I did; but I can't understand it for you.

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Tue Jul 06, 2021 2:32 am

Eodnhoj7 wrote: ↑Tue Jul 06, 2021 2:21 am

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Mon Jul 05, 2021 11:50 pm
I already showed you this was a false dichotomy. You can go back and read that again, I guess.

You don't get it. I can see that.

I've tried. I can think of no simpler ways to put it for you.

It is not a false dichotomy and you did not prove it as such.

Yeah, it is, and yeah, I did.

I can show it to you, and I did; but I can't understand it for you.

False, absence of cause and cause form a dualism synonymous with the standard positive and negative values in a truth statement. You proved nothing other than a misapplication of what consists of a fallacy. Rather you are making assertions and mistaking them as proofs. If no cause is behind the first cause then acausality is the result.

It cannot be eternity as eternity would be the first cause for other phenomenon and nothing causes eternity. To say eternity is what lies behind everything is to say all things which comes from what is eternal are extensions of said eternal reality as effects of it. Eternity is thus a first cause....but eternity is a condition defining an absence of time, or infinite time, thus is not a thing in itself thus not a first cause.

You are also ignoring the question "what is behind the first cause?"

Eodnhoj7 wrote: ↑Tue Jul 06, 2021 2:36 am you are making assertions and mistaking them as proofs.

No. You're just misunderstanding again.

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Tue Jul 06, 2021 2:43 am

Eodnhoj7 wrote: ↑Tue Jul 06, 2021 2:36 am you are making assertions and mistaking them as proofs.

No. You're just misunderstanding again.

What is behind the first cause? You keep ignoring this simple question.

You cannot say eternity because this is a condition, this condition is a facet of being and as a facet of being is part of the cause/effect chain given it is part of the continuity of changes.. To say eternity lies behind being is to say it is a cause of being through the continuity of being. This continuity of being is it's own cause with nothing lying behind it thus is uncaused. Continuity is being as its own cause with nothing behind it....it is an uncaused cause.

Eodnhoj7 wrote: ↑Tue Jul 06, 2021 2:48 am

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Tue Jul 06, 2021 2:43 am

Eodnhoj7 wrote: ↑Tue Jul 06, 2021 2:36 am you are making assertions and mistaking them as proofs.

No. You're just misunderstanding again.

What is behind the first cause?

Oy vey.

I answered this looooong ago.

The answer is three letters long. Go find it.

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Tue Jul 06, 2021 3:22 am

Eodnhoj7 wrote: ↑Tue Jul 06, 2021 2:48 am

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Tue Jul 06, 2021 2:43 am
No. You're just misunderstanding again.

What is behind the first cause?

Oy vey.

I answered this looooong ago.

The answer is three letters long. Go find it.

No. Repeat it. All arguments are the same thing expressed in a multitude of ways.

Nothing is behind the first cause because if another cause is behind it then it is not the first cause. If nothing is behind the first cause then it is uncaused. The supreme cause is uncaused thus acausality is proven.

Eodnhoj7 wrote: ↑Tue Jul 06, 2021 3:34 am No. Repeat it.

Hah. No. Figure it out.

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Tue Jul 06, 2021 3:37 am

Eodnhoj7 wrote: ↑Tue Jul 06, 2021 3:34 am No. Repeat it.

Hah. No. Figure it out.

No, refute this:

"Nothing is behind the first cause because if another cause is behind it then it is not the first cause. If nothing is behind the first cause then it is uncaused. The supreme cause is uncaused thus acausality is proven."

This uncaused cause is free given it diverges to all possible outcomes through the actualization of said phenomenon...in simpler terms what is possible is actualized with all possibilities being actualized thus free.