Philosophy Now Forum

Harbal wrote: ↑Mon Aug 22, 2022 1:03 pm Well I did post my ideas about that earlier, but I can't remember if it was on this thread or another one. I can't be bothered to find the posts or write them out again though.

Okay.

Belinda wrote: ↑Mon Aug 22, 2022 7:14 pmI answered your question already last month or something, Henry.

Okay.

Dubious wrote: ↑Mon Aug 22, 2022 9:40 pm pretending has always been part and parcel of our existence, no matter where, no matter when. Pretending is what we do almost every day without even noticing. Some "pretensions" are just bigger than others affecting whole societies and that's the way its always been.

How is it meat machines yearn to be more than meat machines?

Harry Baird wrote: ↑Mon Aug 22, 2022 11:47 pm

phyllo wrote: ↑Mon Aug 22, 2022 2:44 pm One can't help but notice how neatly everything seems to fit into binary categories like true/false, fact/opinion, objective/subjective, black/white.

And how, sometimes, black is white!

That's still just binary.

phyllo wrote: ↑Tue Aug 23, 2022 1:23 am

Harry Baird wrote: ↑Mon Aug 22, 2022 11:47 pm

phyllo wrote: ↑Mon Aug 22, 2022 2:44 pm One can't help but notice how neatly everything seems to fit into binary categories like true/false, fact/opinion, objective/subjective, black/white.

And how, sometimes, black is white!

That's still just binary.

What about fact/I am of the opinion that black/white are binary
..is that fact/fact?

henry quirk wrote: ↑Tue Aug 23, 2022 12:17 am

Dubious wrote: ↑Mon Aug 22, 2022 9:40 pm pretending has always been part and parcel of our existence, no matter where, no matter when. Pretending is what we do almost every day without even noticing. Some "pretensions" are just bigger than others affecting whole societies and that's the way its always been.

How is it meat machines yearn to be more than meat machines?

They can yearn as much as they like; that doesn't change what they are.

phyllo wrote: ↑Tue Aug 23, 2022 1:23 am

Harry Baird wrote: ↑Mon Aug 22, 2022 11:47 pm

phyllo wrote: ↑Mon Aug 22, 2022 2:44 pm One can't help but notice how neatly everything seems to fit into binary categories like true/false, fact/opinion, objective/subjective, black/white.

And how, sometimes, black is white!

That's still just binary.

Yar. I mean, if we're reduced into binary categories, we should at least pick the right ones.

attofishpi wrote: ↑Mon Aug 22, 2022 11:03 pm ..has anyone spotted the elephant in the room?

Yes. AJ still refuses to take his energy drinks. You know the doctors prescribed them because you need them, AJ. Do you remember what happens to you when you don't take them? We know you don't like them, and you've registered your protest, but it's going to happen one way or the other. You don't want us to have to call a Code Red, do you? Come now, make it easy on yourself.

Harry Baird wrote: ↑Tue Aug 23, 2022 5:04 am

attofishpi wrote: ↑Mon Aug 22, 2022 11:03 pm ..has anyone spotted the elephant in the room?

Yes. AJ still refuses to take his energy drinks. You know the doctors prescribed them because you need them, AJ. Do you remember what happens to you when you don't take them? We know you don't like them, and you've registered your protest, but it's going to happen one way or the other. You don't want us to have to call a Code Red, do you? Come now, make it easy on yourself.

Precisely, I just hope he is not back on the cocaine.

attofishpi wrote: ↑Tue Aug 23, 2022 6:01 am

Harry Baird wrote: ↑Tue Aug 23, 2022 5:04 am

attofishpi wrote: ↑Mon Aug 22, 2022 11:03 pm ..has anyone spotted the elephant in the room?

Yes. AJ still refuses to take his energy drinks. You know the doctors prescribed them because you need them, AJ. Do you remember what happens to you when you don't take them? We know you don't like them, and you've registered your protest, but it's going to happen one way or the other. You don't want us to have to call a Code Red, do you? Come now, make it easy on yourself.

Precisely, I just hope he is not back on the cocaine.

I know, I know. Hope is all we can do. He seems to have ways of sourcing these substances even on the inside. It's a devil of a job to work out how he does it, the cunning fellow.

AJ, we know you're suffering, but self-medication is not the responsible path. You need to take what's prescribed.

henry quirk wrote: ↑Mon Aug 22, 2022 12:53 pm

Harbal wrote: ↑Mon Aug 22, 2022 12:43 pm

henry quirk wrote: ↑Mon Aug 22, 2022 12:18 pm
If we're nuthin' but meat machines, then why do we need to pretend we're not?

What odd things we meat machines are that we pretend we're not meat machines.

Or, mebbe, we aren't pretendin'...

To think we are anything other than a manifestation of a particular set of biological processes is an act of pure imagination. That doesn't mean that there couldn't be more to us than that, but if it turned out that there were, it would just be a lucky guess.

There's some science that points to us bein' sumthin' other than or more than just meat machines. I'll post some examples later this morning. Right now, though, I gotta ask, again: If we're nuthin' but meat machines, then why do we need to pretend we're not?

Arguably , no human was less like a meat machine than Jesus Christ. We all know people living today who are less like meat machines than certain others who more resemble meat machines.

I disagree with Dubious. Yearning not to be a meat machine is precisely what kicks off the process of becoming less like a meat machine.

henry quirk wrote: ↑Tue Aug 23, 2022 12:17 am

Dubious wrote: ↑Mon Aug 22, 2022 9:40 pm pretending has always been part and parcel of our existence, no matter where, no matter when. Pretending is what we do almost every day without even noticing. Some "pretensions" are just bigger than others affecting whole societies and that's the way its always been.

How is it meat machines yearn to be more than meat machines?

It's the ability of an intelligent animal to respond actively to life events.

Some people , those who more resemble meat machines, have a passive attitude to life and its problems. Other people face their problems and their opportunities and have faith in their abilities to be agents of change. Having faith is like pretending. We must live as if we are free to change our futures, we don't have any other choice unless we actually are slaves in every sense of the word, or are immediately engaged in our own dying. In those cases, slavery, and dying, the passive attitude may be the better choice.

Belinda wrote: ↑Mon Aug 22, 2022 7:14 pm It's a matter of fact we are not meat machines . This fact is not because we have a magic gift called Free Will. This fact is due to our experiencing . Meat machines don't experience.

Would you kindly offer proof that "we are not meat machines"?

Harry Baird wrote: ↑Tue Aug 23, 2022 4:59 am

phyllo wrote: ↑Tue Aug 23, 2022 1:23 am

Harry Baird wrote: ↑Mon Aug 22, 2022 11:47 pm

And how, sometimes, black is white!

That's still just binary.

Yar. I mean, if we're reduced into binary categories, we should at least pick the right ones.

If we're reduced into binary categories, then the situation has already been dumbed-down too much.

phyllo wrote: ↑Tue Aug 23, 2022 10:31 am

Harry Baird wrote: ↑Tue Aug 23, 2022 4:59 am

phyllo wrote: ↑Tue Aug 23, 2022 1:23 am
That's still just binary.

Yar. I mean, if we're reduced into binary categories, we should at least pick the right ones.

If we're reduced into binary categories, then the situation has already been dumbed-down too much.

Cool cool. So, how, then, would you reframe Belinda's three beliefs such that they are non-binary and not too dumbed-down?