Philosophy Now Forum

AlexW wrote: ↑Thu Jul 22, 2021 3:16 am

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Thu Jul 22, 2021 3:12 am So if no view of reality is correct or incorrect then, with all due respect, who are you to tell someone they have an incorrect view of reality?

I told/reminded her because she actually knows this herself - yet she seems to have decided to ignore this understanding and has locked herself in a "dark place". It was an (failed) attempt of getting her out of this place.

So, why not just let her be then? Why worry about what she said to you?

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Thu Jul 22, 2021 3:11 am A philosophy forum seems as good a place as anywhere else to discuss one's world views.

Of course.

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Thu Jul 22, 2021 3:11 amNot everyone has access to a therapist...

Sooo... that matters because...?

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Thu Jul 22, 2021 3:11 amThis is life. This is reality.

We all have them!

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Thu Jul 22, 2021 3:11 amA philosopher should be able to deal with it if they really are better than those with bad views.

It's not about being better than "bad views". A philosopher (or anyone) should be able to point out when someone is going off the deep end with their indiscriminate insults and ranting. She's doing this publicly on this forum... and other people are responding to that honestly.

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Thu Jul 22, 2021 3:19 am So, why not just let her be then? Why worry about what she said to you?

I am letting her be - that's why I blocked her.

I have tried to help and I have failed... is it my fault or hers?
I think neither one is at fault... it's just that I don't tolerate verbal abuse and as she can't stop being insulting I rather not talk to her anymore.

AlexW wrote: ↑Thu Jul 22, 2021 3:25 am

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Thu Jul 22, 2021 3:19 am So, why not just let her be then? Why worry about what she said to you?

I am letting her be - that's why I blocked her.

I have tried to help and I have failed... is it my fault or hers?
I think neither one is at fault... it's just that I don't tolerate verbal abuse and as she can't stop being insulting I rather not talk to her anymore.

OK. If you blocked her, then that sounds like the best thing for you. Good on you.

Lacewing wrote: ↑Thu Jul 22, 2021 3:24 am

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Thu Jul 22, 2021 3:11 am A philosophy forum seems as good a place as anywhere else to discuss one's world views.

Of course.

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Thu Jul 22, 2021 3:11 amNot everyone has access to a therapist...

Sooo... that matters because...?

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Thu Jul 22, 2021 3:11 amThis is life. This is reality.

We all have them!

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Thu Jul 22, 2021 3:11 amA philosopher should be able to deal with it if they really are better than those with bad views.

It's not about being better than "bad views". A philosopher (or anyone) should be able to point out when someone is going off the deep end with their indiscriminate insults and ranting. She's doing this publicly on this forum... and other people are responding to that honestly.

I was just trying to determine why she was insulting to Alex. Looking at what he posted that he gave me to take a look at, and having my own understanding of dark places, I can see why she might be upset. If the intention is to really help her, then I just think engaging in the back and forth isn't going to yield much of value to anyone.

AlexW wrote: ↑Thu Jul 22, 2021 12:50 am
Just because something doesn't hurt you it doesn't mean that it doesn't hurt others - I find the way you talk to me (and others) painful, no matter if you understand that or not. You might be numb and insensitive to verbal abuse - I am not.

I have tried to explain this to you multiple times, yet you continue... you don't want to understand (or are incapable of it) and are obviously finding it "lush to lash out at other people".
It makes me pretty sad, because I thought that you were actually a decent human being (if there is such a thing), but you have proven me wrong.
I wish you good luck, have "fun" lashing out at others and I hope that somewhen you will understand that violence has many faces (and verbal violence is a very ugly one) and that it is not good enough to reject one side of it and practice the other.

I am not a Buddhist, but I think Buddha was on to something when he defined the steps of the Noble Eightfold Path:
Right Understanding, Right Thought, Right Speech, Right Action, Right Livelihood, Right Effort, Right Mindfulness and Right Concentration.
They only work together, like a wheel needs all its spokes to be in place to function and find balance when under way - I hope you will find this balance somewhen too...

This my last post to you - DAM blocked.

Ok bye. Hope you got all that negative energy out of your system and can move on now. It seems you like me when I'm good, but you do not like me when I'm bad, ok fair enough, that pretty much sounds like the human condition, always preferring one side of the coin to the other. Very typically conditioned.

Yes indeedy, the lash is back folks...just never be yourself, because no one wants you to be yourself, they always want what they want you to be. Not what you are. Kind of ironic really. You can have positive opinions about life, but you are not allowed to have negative opinions about life, yeah sounds about right. You thought I was a good person, but you've changed your mind, you now think I am not a good person....gosh, imagine having to carry that burden of always having to pretend to be someone else to please another. Alex that is narcissistic. .but oh well, just confirms people only care about what they want you to be, not how you actually are. .such bullshitting hypocrites.

Seems like Alex is not accepting reality for what it actually is, rather wanting it to be a whole lot different than what it actually is, ok, the common mistake made by spiritual preachers who cannot adhere to their own spiritual theories, but he is only human after all.

Yes please block me, please, if that makes you feel better, yes, please put yourself out of the misery of ever having to hear someones negative opinion..all because you just want life to be right. It's just got to be right else it's just bad, and I don't want to accept it's bad because that makes me sad...oh please, pull yourself together. Talk about imbalance, take a look at your own reactions.

And just so you know, all your interpretations about my character are WRONG... so you can shove your RIGHT ..right up your poo poo hole.

The Buddists are no different to the God people, they are just another form of self-righteous self-opinionated religious crack pots too Alex. They are humans like the rest of us, full of self bias opinion.

AlexW wrote: ↑Thu Jul 22, 2021 12:50 am


And yes, of course it is good to "accept reality for what it really is" and this can be "extremely enlightening and vigorating" - yet, what you seem to be doing is not accepting reality for what it really is (otherwise you would not have a negative opinion about it), but rather seeing your interpretations of reality as something that is actually ultimately true (which, as you well know, can never be the case).

Lacewing wrote: ↑Thu Jul 22, 2021 2:39 am
Oh c'mon Gary... have you been paying attention to DAM's posts? She has been going off on everyone lately.

It takes two to tango.

Just dare to mention to other philosophers that you think life sucks, or that you believe life is a cold blood thirsty canabilistic gladiator war from start to finish.. or that you hate it so much you never want to be born ever again. Just read the reactions and the replies one gets when they choose to be their true self, and be honest about their beliefs and feelings...read back through this whole thread, and see for yourself, what you get when you are just being yourself, and say things like '' I hate life '' or that I hate life because it's nothing less than pain and suffering and misery....just look at how one is perceived when they say these things...yep, misery loves company.

Life sucks, that is my opinion. Is that opinion I believe to be right ...all WRONG with you, if it is, then you are entitled to be RIGHT to say it is WRONG. But it will not change a thing.

Does having these thoughts make me a bad person, No it does not... having these thoughts does not change the fact that I can enjoy the parts of life that are capable of being enjoyed just like everyone else.

...

Anyways, moving on....

AlexW wrote: ↑Thu Jul 22, 2021 1:11 am

Belinda wrote: ↑Wed Jul 21, 2021 2:35 pm It is a good point you make but it is not so much individual words that make what is said aggressive, it's the meaning intended.

I think that sweary words can be meant to indicate belonging to a social group that uses sweary words. Usually when people are meeting face to face they alter their language to fit the occasion and the company, I don't know if it is a good thing or a bad thing that people have online aliases and personas that are reserved for forums.

Why do you defend people who are obviously violent towards others? Why do you try to make up reasons to justify it? Are you in some way related (besides being female and seem to like looking down on men)?

A punch in the face is a punch in the face - it can't be misunderstood.
Calling someone an A-hole and whatever else, can't be misunderstood either - there is no positive meaning attached to what has been said.

Belinda wrote: ↑Wed Jul 21, 2021 2:35 pm I find that I am not offended by swear words and images; I do recognise that some others are. I am sure people who swear on this forum have their own reasons for doing so, and I think that DAM's words are chosen to add emphasis to her opinions.
It does surprise me that ordinarily sophisticated adults are offended by harmless insults. It is not as if these injure your reputation,or livelihood, or social life

It actually does surprise me that "sophisticated adults" are not insulted by so called "harmless" insults!
Are you so numb to verbal abuse (and violence in general) that you condone it?

I think that most people actually are insulted by these "harmless insults", yet they hide it and vent their anger by insulting the insulter - then the insulter will insult more and there we go... if we weren't on an internet forum, but in a pub, people would soon shove a glass into the insulters face...

Here I say it again (this time shouting):
BEING ON AN INTERNET FORUM IS NO EXCUSE FOR BEING INSULTING!
Go to the pub around the corner and try it there!
See how long it will take you before someone doesn't find your insults that harmless anymore.
Maybe physical face to face contact is the only way to learn what is actually acceptable and what is not...

Hiding behind avatars and internet anonymity makes people strong and bold, they do what they would otherwise never do.
But, is this really a good thing?
I don't think so!

I don't like or admire DAM's literary style. I do agree with a few of her ideas and her feelings which she, unlike some here, is able to express with apparent passion. It is more important to address ideas and feelings than to be personally affronted by insults.

I know how it feels to be hurt when someone insults me even online where I am practically anonymous. I will try to ignore insults and address what the other person is saying, if that seems to me to matter.

So far DAM has not called me an arsehole. If she did so I'd tell her what she knows of me is only a beginning and I am much worse than she knows.

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Thu Jul 22, 2021 2:50 am
To be honest, I think DAM is just in a really bad place.

Actually, I'm not in any place. But you are welcome to your judgements about what you think is actually happening here. Doesn't change anything.

I happen to believe that stupid dumb comments deserve stupid dumb responses.

All there is, in my opinion is knowledge, which is nothing more than information circulating around from one receiving brain to the next, and so if there is offense taken, if the shoe fits, or it doesn't fit, then there is an automatic rejection or acceptance. But that doesn't make any difference to reality. Reality is silent on all mental matters, Reality looks on in complete detachment, it's totally not invested in knowledge, how could it be, it's a dumb deaf and blind dna replicating self sustaining system, all it cares about is can I make more of this. . It just doesn't give two shiny shites what this IS - IS...which does apparently seem to appear as mentally constructed opinions made up by verbally expressed language..It's like telling a tree to fuck off, does the tree give a fuck about that, not really. It's just a dumb fucking tree.



.

AlexW wrote: ↑Thu Jul 22, 2021 1:11 am It actually does surprise me that "sophisticated adults" are not insulted by so called "harmless" insults!
Are you so numb to verbal abuse (and violence in general) that you condone it?

I think that most people actually are insulted by these "harmless insults", yet they hide it and vent their anger by insulting the insulter - then the insulter will insult more and there we go... if we weren't on an internet forum, but in a pub, people would soon shove a glass into the insulters face...

Here I say it again (this time shouting):
BEING ON AN INTERNET FORUM IS NO EXCUSE FOR BEING INSULTING!
Go to the pub around the corner and try it there!
See how long it will take you before someone doesn't find your insults that harmless anymore.
Maybe physical face to face contact is the only way to learn what is actually acceptable and what is not...

Hiding behind avatars and internet anonymity makes people strong and bold, they do what they would otherwise never do.
But, is this really a good thing?
I don't think so!

Congratulations on discovering the internet..aka the inner net...is a place where people can express their true colours of who they really are. Labels stick like glue, no one is made of teflon. It all started when your parents gave your nameless self a label. From that day on, a you were hooked into the name game hook line and stinker. A name game that you yourself invented. . aka personal identification with an attachment to labels. But ask yourself.. How is a human also called an Alex?
How is a No one, or a Nobody, also called a dumb stupid kunt ? but hey ho, if the label sticks, then take it, or if you cannot take it, stop taking it.

Social media for example, too many places to count, is a place where I personally wouldn't be seen dead using. Just because I have the wisdom to know what is the true colour of the human mind.

The internet is a place where people can say what's really on their mind and not feel like they have to suppress their true inner being.

However: in the realtime world of physical face to face exchanges where people are met with the fear of being told they are a bad person just because they happen to have a dark opinion on something, that might be seen offensive by others.


In real life though, you are quite right, people will put on their pretend mask, for fear of being glassed in the face, because people fear being offended...and so the only way out of this human folly, is to wear the mask that will appear to impress other people into liking them, because people crave to be liked. People are insecure, they want to be liked. They would never dream of saying to someone in a pub how they really feel about things, because humans just don't like hearing the truth. They'd rather punch someone in the face, than face actual reality as it really is, they do not like to hear the truth, they'd rather hear all your lies. . is all very normal human behavior, and that's why I strongly believe that a lot of people suck, and deserve to be told that they suck.

.

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Thu Jul 22, 2021 9:51 am

AlexW wrote: ↑Thu Jul 22, 2021 1:11 am It actually does surprise me that "sophisticated adults" are not insulted by so called "harmless" insults!
Are you so numb to verbal abuse (and violence in general) that you condone it?

I think that most people actually are insulted by these "harmless insults", yet they hide it and vent their anger by insulting the insulter - then the insulter will insult more and there we go... if we weren't on an internet forum, but in a pub, people would soon shove a glass into the insulters face...

Here I say it again (this time shouting):
BEING ON AN INTERNET FORUM IS NO EXCUSE FOR BEING INSULTING!
Go to the pub around the corner and try it there!
See how long it will take you before someone doesn't find your insults that harmless anymore.
Maybe physical face to face contact is the only way to learn what is actually acceptable and what is not...

Hiding behind avatars and internet anonymity makes people strong and bold, they do what they would otherwise never do.
But, is this really a good thing?
I don't think so!

Congratulations on discovering the internet..aka the inner net...is a place where people can express their true colours of who they really are. Labels stick like glue, no one is made of teflon. It all started when your parents gave your nameless self a label. From that day on, a you were hooked into the name game hook line and stinker. A name game that you yourself invented. . aka personal identification with an attachment to labels. But ask yourself.. How is a human also called an Alex?
How is a No one, or a Nobody, also called a dumb stupid kunt ? but hey ho, if the label sticks, then take it, or if you cannot take it, stop taking it.

Social media for example, too many places to count, is a place where I personally wouldn't be seen dead using. Just because I have the wisdom to know what is the true colour of the human mind.

The internet is a place where people can say what's really on their mind and not feel like they have to suppress their true inner being.

However: in the realtime world of physical face to face exchanges where people are met with the fear of being told they are a bad person just because they happen to have a dark opinion on something, that might be seen offensive by others.


In real life though, you are quite right, people will put on their pretend mask, for fear of being glassed in the face, because people fear being offended...and so the only way out of this human folly, is to wear the mask that will appear to impress other people into liking them, because people crave to be liked. People are insecure, they want to be liked. They would never dream of saying to someone in a pub how they really feel about things, because humans just don't like hearing the truth. They'd rather punch someone in the face, than face actual reality as it really is, they do not like to hear the truth, they'd rather hear all your lies. . is all very normal human behavior, and that's why I strongly believe that a lot of people suck, and deserve to be told that they suck.

.

I agree with you that the internet is good for verbal self expression, and verbal self expression is good for honest and authentic communications . I think the objections are not so much to prudishness but more about personal insults. Of course, "a lot of people suck". However it's not any use to anyone including yourself telling someone they are a bad or stupid person but it is potentially useful to tell someone how they can do better. Philosophers usually do this impersonally.

I do like your pessimism about human nature as it is safer and healthier than optimism about human nature, and this is why I usually support you. Again, better not to blame individuals for their perceived faults, unless you are a politician or a judge.

Lacewing wrote: ↑Thu Jul 22, 2021 2:57 am

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Wed Jul 21, 2021 11:09 pm

Lacewing wrote: ↑Wed Jul 21, 2021 10:49 pm
It could possibly be very interesting.

Imagine that.

I can understand why you don't want your extreme manic states talking to each other while we watch, as it will show how fabricated and self-serving all of it is. I was hoping you might demonstrate your ability to step back and bravely play along, to show what else you are made of. But no, the word-salad-spinner only serves up crap. I've wondered what may have happened to send you into this phase lately, but you don't seem capable of having a reasonable conversation or of honest reflection that isn't all about your selfish resentment and hate toward life and everyone else. Charming... and meaningless.

I'm actually lost here, and confused as to what you are wanting me to do, could you please elaborate more specifically, what it is you are talking about, and what it is you want me to demonstrate for you...as far as I am aware, you want me to demonstrate ''Opposition'' is that right?

I also asked you why would you want me to do that? Is that what you want from me, just so that you could watch and then make your own self bias judgement about me. It's kind of like the lashback effect. Are you offended by my opinions on life, do my opinions pain you, if so, is that my problem, why don't you just ignore me then, put me on your ignore list like you have mentioned earlier. Why do people talk about ignore lists, and then don't do them...is it because they want to feel important by taking on the role of judge jury and executioner...? ..why do you keep returning to my vomit like a dog, if I'm such a hot mess in your opinion who needs therapy in your opnion ? What if I told you I am actually fine here. Would you not believe that, just because you find fault in the way I choose to think about life...I'm totally baffled as to why you are even giving me air time. Do not pretend you care about my mental state and welfare. Why do you bother talking to me, is it because you like to think you know whats best for other people, so you have to put your two cents in as well?

Any why do you not believe me when I've already told you before that I am fine here, why do you contuine to bring up the subject of therapy and medication, or self help books, as if I have some sort of mental affliction. I've already told you I am absolutely fine. But if you don't believe me, then perhaps it's you with the problem not me, believing in your own misguided interpretation of my character. You know absolutely nothing about me. Why do you think something has happened to me. I've never been anyone other than who I am from the moment of my birth, nothing about me has ever changed.

.

Belinda wrote: ↑Thu Jul 22, 2021 10:53 am I agree with you that the internet is good for verbal self expression, and verbal self expression is good for honest and authentic communications . I think the objections are not so much to prudishness but more about personal insults. Of course, "a lot of people suck". However it's not any use to anyone including yourself telling someone they are a bad or stupid person but it is potentially useful to tell someone how they can do better. Philosophers usually do this impersonally.

I do like your pessimism about human nature as it is safer and healthier than optimism about human nature, and this is why I usually support you. Again, better not to blame individuals for their perceived faults, unless you are a politician or a judge.

I agree with everything you've said here.

However, I do not see the philosophers on this particular forum adhering to impersonal code of conduct. So if someone here believes I am a ''bad person'' just for having an opinion, then I reserve the right to be personal in my counter attack on them.

Many posters piss on me on this forum, it does not bother me, and I have never put anyone on ignore, because I find all discussion whether it's negative or positive very interesting. So yeah, I just happen to have my own philosophical opinions about life, the way I see it, so I'm sorry, if people don't like it, then they do not have to keep pissing on me, but if they do then it's my prerogative to piss back.

I'm not blaming people for their faults, people are who they are. I only ever respond in kind to people, but if they piss on my ideas, I'll piss on their piss.



.

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Thu Jul 22, 2021 10:57 am you want me to demonstrate ''Opposition'' is that right?

I was wondering how you could respond to yourself, using your opposing positions that you've expressed (in detail and at length) on this forum: one position being self-involved, and the other being no self.

It's not that your views are bad or wrong, it's that you go so overboard with them as if nothing else exists (they are the ultimate truth and reality, blah, blah, blah)... yet, on a different week, there's another very different view that is the ultimate truth and reality. (If you were two people, you would be insulting and arguing with yourself.) While you're flopping around, seemingly not very self-aware of all of this and all the contradiction, you play the victim while railing against people who question and respond to your mood of the moment, as if they are the stupid ones.

This latest trip you seem to be on is too selfish and absurd for me to engage in further. I wish you well.

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Thu Jul 22, 2021 9:28 am

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Thu Jul 22, 2021 2:50 am
To be honest, I think DAM is just in a really bad place.

Actually, I'm not in any place. But you are welcome to your judgements about what you think is actually happening here. Doesn't change anything.

I happen to believe that stupid dumb comments deserve stupid dumb responses.

All there is, in my opinion is knowledge, which is nothing more than information circulating around from one receiving brain to the next, and so if there is offense taken, if the shoe fits, or it doesn't fit, then there is an automatic rejection or acceptance. But that doesn't make any difference to reality. Reality is silent on all mental matters, Reality looks on in complete detachment, it's totally not invested in knowledge, how could it be, it's a dumb deaf and blind dna replicating self sustaining system, all it cares about is can I make more of this. . It just doesn't give two shiny shites what this IS - IS...which does apparently seem to appear as mentally constructed opinions made up by verbally expressed language..It's like telling a tree to fuck off, does the tree give a fuck about that, not really. It's just a dumb fucking tree.



.

Well, it's nice to be happy. I'm glad you have gotten to a place where you have found happiness while going against the grain. I get a lot of flak for being "negative." Many people don't seem to like my view of the world and it takes a toll on me at times. But I really do think the world is a terrible place.