Philosophy Now Forum

Nick wrote:

The Ship of Theseus seems to me to raise the question of the relationship between essence and appearance. Does the essence of a ship change by changing its external appearance. At what point does the essence of the ship disappear?

That is why the Ship of Theseus is still a problem for you. There is no essence of the ship. There was never an essence of the ship even when it was brand new and when Theseus was sailing in it.

When I talk about "soul" I don't mean an essence of the individual. Yes, most individuals have one personality per individual but that can change too, sometimes drastically.

Nick_A wrote: ↑Mon Jun 04, 2018 11:05 pm Society is the Great Beast and like all other beasts its movements are all lawful reactions to universal laws. One of these laws refers to the pendulum. A society is born. Gradually it reaches its peak of life. Then the pendulum moves in the other direction. Society begins to die and collapse in on itself. It will hit bottom. Then the cycle starts again with those who survive. It is the nature of life on earth.

So, Nick, do you ACCEPT or REJECT the nature of life on earth and (as you say) "lawful reactions to universal laws"?

[ ] ACCEPT

[ ] REJECT

[ ] UNSURE

Lacewing wrote: ↑Tue Jun 05, 2018 12:08 am

Nick_A wrote: ↑Mon Jun 04, 2018 11:05 pm Society is the Great Beast and like all other beasts its movements are all lawful reactions to universal laws. One of these laws refers to the pendulum. A society is born. Gradually it reaches its peak of life. Then the pendulum moves in the other direction. Society begins to die and collapse in on itself. It will hit bottom. Then the cycle starts again with those who survive. It is the nature of life on earth.

So, Nick, do you ACCEPT or REJECT the nature of life on earth and (as you say) "lawful reactions to universal laws"?

[ ] ACCEPT

[ ] REJECT

[ ] UNSURE

I accept. There are no causes in nature since everything is an effect; reactions to universal laws.

Nick_A wrote: ↑Tue Jun 05, 2018 4:13 am

Lacewing wrote: ↑Tue Jun 05, 2018 12:08 am

Nick_A wrote: ↑Mon Jun 04, 2018 11:05 pm Society is the Great Beast and like all other beasts its movements are all lawful reactions to universal laws. One of these laws refers to the pendulum. A society is born. Gradually it reaches its peak of life. Then the pendulum moves in the other direction. Society begins to die and collapse in on itself. It will hit bottom. Then the cycle starts again with those who survive. It is the nature of life on earth.

So, Nick, do you ACCEPT or REJECT the nature of life on earth and (as you say) "lawful reactions to universal laws"?

I accept. There are no causes in nature since everything is an effect; reactions to universal laws.

So you accept the movements of all beasts (including the "Great Beast" you've defined), as they are reactions to universal laws?

Lacewing wrote: ↑Tue Jun 05, 2018 4:47 am

Nick_A wrote: ↑Tue Jun 05, 2018 4:13 am

Lacewing wrote: ↑Tue Jun 05, 2018 12:08 am
So, Nick, do you ACCEPT or REJECT the nature of life on earth and (as you say) "lawful reactions to universal laws"?

I accept. There are no causes in nature since everything is an effect; reactions to universal laws.

So you accept the movements of all beasts (including the "Great Beast" you've defined), as they are reactions to universal laws?

Yes, there are no causes in nature since nature herself is an effect. A puppet on a string appear to be doing something but actually motion is a result of the string.

Nick_A wrote: ↑Tue Jun 05, 2018 2:33 pm Yes, there are no causes in nature since nature herself is an effect. A puppet on a string appear to be doing something but actually motion is a result of the string.

If you believe this, then why do you rant about the Great Beast -- what do you expect to change, and why do you see it as wrong?

Lacewing wrote: ↑Tue Jun 05, 2018 3:16 pm

Nick_A wrote: ↑Tue Jun 05, 2018 2:33 pm Yes, there are no causes in nature since nature herself is an effect. A puppet on a string appear to be doing something but actually motion is a result of the string.

If you believe this, then why do you rant about the Great Beast -- what do you expect to change, and why do you see it as wrong?

I thought the answer was so obvious that no one would ask. (But then, I knew where your questions were leading to.)

Lacewing wrote: ↑Tue Jun 05, 2018 3:16 pm

Nick_A wrote: ↑Tue Jun 05, 2018 2:33 pm Yes, there are no causes in nature since nature herself is an effect. A puppet on a string appear to be doing something but actually motion is a result of the string.

If you believe this, then why do you rant about the Great Beast -- what do you expect to change, and why do you see it as wrong?

An individual has conscious possibilities the Beast as a whole does not. Man is unique to organic life on earth in that Man is capable of developing conscious self awareness and a connection with its source. The Beast or society cannot do it since it automatically serves the purposes that all organic life on earth which is the transformation of substances through bodily processes.

A person can awaken to remember this potential conscious connection to higher reality nature is closed to. Organic life on earth is a living machine which eats itself and reproduces in order to serve its purpose. An individual has the conscious potential to be more than just a creature of REACTION but can through conscious evolution become a conscious being capable of conscious ACTION and capable of "choice."

The collective energy of this quality of consciousness can serve to lessen the consequences of lawful harmful reactions to universal laws like wars. Even though the world must hate awakening ideas threatening its imagined importance, I support the minority who sense their value since human survival my well depend on the minority capable of opening to them and making the efforts to actualize them in themselves..

Nick_A wrote: ↑Tue Jun 05, 2018 7:32 pm [the usual]

So, an individual is NOT nature? An individual is somehow above and more capable than nature? Man's conscious self-awareness is somehow capable of such clarity as to know his creator? Organic life is a machine, but man is not? Together, evolved humankind can rise above universal laws like wars? You support the minority who sense their value? And, most of all, you seriously believe all of your shit that you make up?

Nick wrote:

An individual has conscious possibilities the Beast as a whole does not.

But society is society by virtue of shared culture. True, it's best when as many individuals as possible feel free to think for themselves . We don't want a our society to be an aggregate of slaves in the service of a small free elite.

It is quite possible and also desirable that society is not a great beast but is rather a consensus of free men.

What is a free man?

Lacewing wrote: ↑Tue Jun 05, 2018 9:41 pm

Nick_A wrote: ↑Tue Jun 05, 2018 7:32 pm [the usual]

So, an individual is NOT nature? An individual is somehow above and more capable than nature? Man's conscious self-awareness is somehow capable of such clarity as to know his creator? Organic life is a machine, but man is not? Together, evolved humankind can rise above universal laws like wars? You support the minority who sense their value? And, most of all, you seriously believe all of your shit that you make up?

No. Man is dual natured. The lower parts of are collective essence are animal. We are unique in that we have a higher part capable of consciousness and this quality can evolve. The Beast shares and lives by our lower animal parts governed by universal laws. Only consciousness can have a choice of which laws to fall under. So in reality, as we are we lack choice.

You would be surprised how many people much brighter than me are aware of and value what you find repulsive.

Nick_A wrote: ↑Tue Jun 05, 2018 10:17 pm You would be surprised how many people much brighter than me are aware of and value what you find repulsive.

You mean... the way you make up stuff to support your ego, such as hurling lies at people and not admitting that honorably? I mainly think it's stupid.

Lacewing wrote: ↑Tue Jun 05, 2018 10:21 pm

Nick_A wrote: ↑Tue Jun 05, 2018 10:17 pm You would be surprised how many people much brighter than me are aware of and value what you find repulsive.

The way you make up stuff to support your ego, such as hurling lies at people and not admitting the truth honorably? No, I just find it stupid.

I admit the truth that I am the wretched man. do you admit that you are the wretched woman?

Nick_A wrote: ↑Tue Jun 05, 2018 10:38 pm I admit the truth that I am the wretched man. do you admit that you are the wretched woman?

I think that's ridiculous. Do you think that believing and admitting such a thing about yourself gives you the excuse to spew your dishonesty without ever seeking clarity and offering apology when you are shown to be delusional and wrong?

Belinda wrote: ↑Tue Jun 05, 2018 9:57 pm Nick wrote:

An individual has conscious possibilities the Beast as a whole does not.

But society is society by virtue of shared culture. True, it's best when as many individuals as possible feel free to think for themselves . We don't want a our society to be an aggregate of slaves in the service of a small free elite.

It is quite possible and also desirable that society is not a great beast but is rather a consensus of free men.

What is a free man?

As I see it, a free man would be master of themselves. They can choose. A conscious man would not only be a free man but able to actualize human choice.