Philosophy Now Forum

Khalid wrote:Alright , first of all , I don't have fantasy about the sexualized west . I was simply describing the image I've of way of life that I learned from media about life in most of western countries where level of sexual freedom is higher than ours here in Eastern Arab countries .

'higher' is a far cry from totally unrestricted sex regardless of age or place

I personally think meeting a girl in public (a college classmate for example) without doing or talking about anything wrong is not prohibited by Islam .

but hanging out together in private would not be ok?

Kayla wrote:

Khalid wrote: I personally think meeting a girl in public (a college classmate for example) without doing or talking about anything wrong is not prohibited by Islam .

but hanging out together in private would not be ok?

Yes , it wouldn't be ok , in private means chances for the devil to seduces them . Btw I'm not perfectly muslim person , I'm not very religious , I simply keep my daily 5 prayers to meet God with them after I die , I read Quran from time to time and I avoid doing big sins . On the other hand I have my life and interests , for example I love rock music (western culture ) , dancing , I adore traveling , fishing and others . I have my dreams , interests and everything . I mean a muslim's life is not like you think a very complicated awkward person with complicated life . That's not right .

Khalid, you've ignored me, why? Do you concede the issue?

SpheresOfBalance wrote: What I'm saying is that I agree with you, and yet I see that it can be seen from the opposite perspective and make just as much sense. OK, I agree that for a male to use a female for sex and then leave her, is objectifying her, she was his sex object, we'll call it the way of the west. But I see that it's also true that if a male hold's 'anything' related to a females sex, be it her easiness or chastity, above her head, as being one of the most important things, that decides how he relates to her, is just as objectifying. Do you see my point? The only way a male does not objectify a female, with respect to her sex, is when 'nothing' pertaining to her sex is more important than she is, as the more frail, soft, nurturing, kind, and gentle of the human equation. I am not attempting to diminish the male/female sexual dichotomy as it is part of the very foundation of the human equation.

Women are demanded to hide their hair according to Islam , whether I don't like that or not , I'm not the one who decided that , God did , according to his knowledge and wisdom , this is my religion and I have to take it or leave it , this is faith . I never think had that feeling or that idea that when a woman is committed to her religion , that makes her sex object .

Khalid wrote:

SpheresOfBalance wrote: What I'm saying is that I agree with you, and yet I see that it can be seen from the opposite perspective and make just as much sense. OK, I agree that for a male to use a female for sex and then leave her, is objectifying her, she was his sex object, we'll call it the way of the west. But I see that it's also true that if a male hold's 'anything' related to a females sex, be it her easiness or chastity, above her head, as being one of the most important things, that decides how he relates to her, is just as objectifying. Do you see my point? The only way a male does not objectify a female, with respect to her sex, is when 'nothing' pertaining to her sex is more important than she is, as the more frail, soft, nurturing, kind, and gentle of the human equation. I am not attempting to diminish the male/female sexual dichotomy as it is part of the very foundation of the human equation.

Women are demanded to hide their hair according to Islam , whether I don't like that or not , I'm not the one who decided that , God did , according to his knowledge and wisdom , this is my religion and I have to take it or leave it , this is faith . I never think had that feeling or that idea that when a woman is committed to her religion , that makes her sex object .

Yes, and maybe you merely cling to the words of your religion because you see that, in this case, they behoove your selfish desires, that is, in fact, the objectification of the female sex.

Women are demanded to hide their hair according to Islam , whether I don't like that or not , I'm not the one who decided that , God did , according to his knowledge and wisdom , this is my religion and I have to take it or leave it , this is faith

Tell the believing men that they shall subdue their eyes (and not stare at the women), and to maintain their chastity. This is purer for them. God is fully Cognizant of everything they do.
And tell the believing women to subdue their eyes, and maintain their chastity. They shall not reveal any parts of their bodies, except that which is necessary. They shall cover their chests, and shall not relax this code in the presence of other than their husbands, their fathers, the fathers of their husbands, their sons, the sons of their husbands, their brothers, the sons of their brothers, the sons of their They shall not strike their feet when they walk in order to shake and reveal certain details of their bodies. All of you shall repent to God, O you believers, that you may succeed.* (24:30-31)

*24:30-31 Dressing modestly, therefore, is a trait of the believing men and women. The minimum requirements for a woman's dress is to lengthen her garment (33:59) and to cover her chest. Tyrannical Arab traditions have given a false impression that a woman must be covered from head to toe; such is not a Quranic or Islamic dress.

From the above it appears you have not read the Koran regarding this.

Khalid wrote:Women are demanded to hide their hair according to Islam , whether I don't like that or not , I'm not the one who decided that , God did , according to his knowledge and wisdom , this is my religion and I have to take it or leave it , this is faith .

dude this is a philosophy forum

if you have justify your views here

so if you or i or God himself think something it does not matter you have to explain why it is true not just say so and so says its true

otherwise you are not doing philosophy you are just letting neurons fire at random until your lips blab

in any case you cannot actually follow rules if you do not know the reason for them

so women have to cover their hair

is it OK if one hair is visible?

what if she has a weird medical condition where head covering gives her headaches?

unless you know why covering the hair is required in the first place you cannot say whether this is ok or not

Khalid wrote:Women are demanded to hide their hair according to Islam , whether I don't like that or not , I'm not the one who decided that , God did , according to his knowledge and wisdom , this is my religion and I have to take it or leave it , this is faith .

God did nothing of the sort. A bunch of misogamists that bothered to put pen to paper in the name of Islam did.

attofishpi wrote:God did nothing of the sort. A bunch of misogamists that bothered to put pen to paper in the name of Islam did.

Not quite as some Jews demand this as well and many Christians used to have headscarfs.

Arising_uk wrote:

attofishpi wrote:God did nothing of the sort. A bunch of misogamists that bothered to put pen to paper in the name of Islam did.

Not quite as some Jews demand this as well and many Christians used to have headscarfs.

Let me just point out as i know atheists have a hard time with comprehension...

Jews + Christians are not GOD.

Khalid wrote:

Kayla wrote:but hanging out together in private would not be ok?

Yes , it wouldn't be ok , in private means chances for the devil to seduces them .

surely the devil approves of orgies at least as much as he does of private nonmarital sex?

and that being the case not being in private is no guarantee of safety from demonic influence

Does it piss you off Khalid that as a muslim it is inevitable and ultimate that you worship a jewish 'God'

attofishpi wrote:Let me just point out as i know atheists have a hard time with comprehension...

Jews + Christians are not GOD.

Let me point this out, as I know that some theists have a hard time comprehending it, there is no 'GOD' and as such all there are the Jews + Christians + Muslims.

attofishpi wrote:Does it piss you off Khalid that as a muslim it is inevitable and ultimate that you worship a jewish 'God'

Does it piss-off the Christian?

attofishpi wrote:Does it piss you off Khalid that as a muslim it is inevitable and ultimate that you worship a jewish 'God'

I don't understand what you mean .