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Re: Panpsychism
Posted: Fri Apr 06, 2012 8:38 pm
by Empedocles
MGL wrote:I personally don't like the terms pan-psychism or mindstuff as it has the effect of distracting some people from the actual argument and encouraging ridicule as a poor substitute for criticism.
What would you suggest instead?
Are you familiar with the Process Philosophy of Alfred North Whitehead and his followers? It is quite a complete metaphysics based on the premise that the ultimate constituents of reality are occasions, events, processes, rather than substances. He does not use the term "panpsychism" as I recall, but he calls the ultimate constituents "occasions of experience."
Re: Panpsychism
Posted: Sat Apr 07, 2012 6:49 am
by attofishpi
chaz wyman wrote:attofishpi wrote:It could be poignant to consider what is happening in a 3inch cube of granite as opposed to what is occurring in a 3inch cube of (living) brain.
My point exactly.
It could be poignant to consider what is happening in a 3inch cube of granite as opposed to what is occurring in a 3inch cube of (dead) brain.
Re: Panpsychism
Posted: Sat Apr 07, 2012 10:13 am
by chaz wyman
attofishpi wrote:chaz wyman wrote:attofishpi wrote:It could be poignant to consider what is happening in a 3inch cube of granite as opposed to what is occurring in a 3inch cube of (living) brain.
My point exactly.
It could be poignant to consider what is happening in a 3inch cube of granite as opposed to what is occurring in a 3inch cube of (dead) brain.
Of course
Re: Panpsychism
Posted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 6:29 am
by attofishpi
chaz wyman wrote:attofishpi wrote:It could be poignant to consider what is happening in a 3inch cube of granite as opposed to what is occurring in a 3inch cube of (dead) brain.
Of course
It could be poignant to consider that what is happening in a 3inch cube of granite as opposed to what is occurring in a 3inch cube of (dead) brain....is so very different.
Re: Panpsychism
Posted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 10:45 am
by chaz wyman
attofishpi wrote:chaz wyman wrote:attofishpi wrote:It could be poignant to consider what is happening in a 3inch cube of granite as opposed to what is occurring in a 3inch cube of (dead) brain.
Of course
It could be poignant to consider that what is happening in a 3inch cube of granite as opposed to what is occurring in a 3inch cube of (dead) brain....is so very different.
Dah - obviously.
Have you got a point?
Re: Panpsychism
Posted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 11:17 am
by attofishpi
chaz wyman wrote:attofishpi wrote:It could be poignant to consider that what is happening in a 3inch cube of granite as opposed to what is occurring in a 3inch cube of (dead) brain....is so very different.
Dah - obviously.
Have you got a point?
Yes, the energy field and quantum state of each aforementioned material structure is completely different. Thought it should be pointed out, as the universe from an 'energy' state of consideration can be considered 'alive'.
Re: Panpsychism
Posted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 5:27 pm
by Empedocles
attofishpi wrote:...the universe from an 'energy' state of consideration can be considered 'alive'.
Could you please elaborate on that thought? What does it mean and what leads you to believe it?
Re: Panpsychism
Posted: Wed Apr 11, 2012 9:15 am
by chaz wyman
attofishpi wrote:chaz wyman wrote:attofishpi wrote:It could be poignant to consider that what is happening in a 3inch cube of granite as opposed to what is occurring in a 3inch cube of (dead) brain....is so very different.
Dah - obviously.
Have you got a point?
Yes, the energy field and quantum state of each aforementioned material structure is completely different. Thought it should be pointed out, as the universe from an 'energy' state of consideration can be considered 'alive'.
Just simply no.
It is an abuse of language to call the universe alive.
There is a difference between a 'living brain' and a brain from a non living person. But there is a far greater difference between any kind of brain and a piece of granite. And that has to do with organisation and structure.
Re: Panpsychism
Posted: Wed Apr 11, 2012 9:15 am
by chaz wyman
Empedocles wrote:attofishpi wrote:...the universe from an 'energy' state of consideration can be considered 'alive'.
Could you please elaborate on that thought? What does it mean and what leads you to believe it?
It's just faith.
Re: Panpsychism
Posted: Wed Apr 11, 2012 10:04 am
by attofishpi
Empedocles wrote:attofishpi wrote:...the universe from an 'energy' state of consideration can be considered 'alive'.
Could you please elaborate on that thought? What does it mean and what leads you to believe it?
All matter is energy. Buzzing particles interacting in a structured way. It maintains its structure courtesy of 'God'...Why do i believe it? Just what ive witnessed personally.
Re: Panpsychism
Posted: Wed Apr 11, 2012 10:15 am
by chaz wyman
attofishpi wrote:Empedocles wrote:attofishpi wrote:...the universe from an 'energy' state of consideration can be considered 'alive'.
Could you please elaborate on that thought? What does it mean and what leads you to believe it?
All matter is energy.
No. The clues is in the word "matter", and "energy" we have different words to express different things.
Buzzing particles interacting in a structured way.
No. Energy is a range of different things; potential, kinetic, electrical, thermal, nuclear etc.
Not all matter 'buzzes". When it does it is said to have energy.
It maintains its structure courtesy of 'God'...Why do i believe it?
Why? Because it is asinine bullshit. What the fuck is "god"?
Just what ive witnessed personally.
Bollocks. You have not witnessed anything of the sort.
Re: Panpsychism
Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2012 3:15 am
by attofishpi
chaz wyman wrote:All matter is energy.
No. The clues is in the word "matter", and "energy" we have different words to express different things.
Buzzing particles interacting in a structured way.
No. Energy is a range of different things; potential, kinetic, electrical, thermal, nuclear etc.
Not all matter 'buzzes". When it does it is said to have energy.
It maintains its structure courtesy of 'God'...Why do i believe it?
Why? Because it is asinine bullshit. What the fuck is "god"?
Just what ive witnessed personally.
Bollocks. You have not witnessed anything of the sort.
I was using the term energy from more of a philosophical or conceptual standpoint...not in the strict scientific definition. When considering matter last night my sage communicated to me "Slow Energy"
Matter can be consider condensed energy or at least a store of energy. You state that not all matter 'buzzes'...and that when it does it is said to have energy. That is incorrect all matter has energy.
Re: Panpsychism
Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2012 12:33 pm
by chaz wyman
attofishpi wrote:chaz wyman wrote:All matter is energy.
No. The clues is in the word "matter", and "energy" we have different words to express different things.
Buzzing particles interacting in a structured way.
No. Energy is a range of different things; potential, kinetic, electrical, thermal, nuclear etc.
Not all matter 'buzzes". When it does it is said to have energy.
It maintains its structure courtesy of 'God'...Why do i believe it?
Why? Because it is asinine bullshit. What the fuck is "god"?
Just what ive witnessed personally.
Bollocks. You have not witnessed anything of the sort.
I was using the term energy from more of a philosophical or conceptual standpoint...
WHICH IS...... (meaningless??).
Please exapnd.
not in the strict scientific definition.
DUH
When considering matter last night my sage communicated to me "Slow Energy"
You poor bugger.
Matter can be consider condensed energy or at least a store of energy.
Only if the matter is able to be transformed by a nuclear explosion.
You state that not all matter 'buzzes'...and that when it does it is said to have energy. That is incorrect all matter has energy.
Buzzes is meaningless, as ids you concept of energy.
Re: Panpsychism
Posted: Fri Apr 13, 2012 5:47 am
by attofishpi
From personal experience, it has become very apparent that reality is as malleable as would appear on a CGI screen. It pisses me off that i have little in the way of proving the existence of the entity that has ultimate control over all dimensions....without sounding like a twat.
Re: Panpsychism
Posted: Fri Apr 13, 2012 10:32 am
by chaz wyman
attofishpi wrote:From personal experience, it has become very apparent that reality is as malleable as would appear on a CGI screen. It pisses me off that i have little in the way of proving the existence of the entity that has ultimate control over all dimensions....without sounding like a twat.
It does make you sound like a twat and reminds me of Shakespeare's phrase "A dizzy man thinks the whole world spins."
Your conception of reality is as malleable as you allow it to be, that is not the same as implying that you can manipulate it.
You cannot prove it, you cannot demonstrate it; neither God, nor more that 4 dimensions (and 4 is not that clear).