The Hour of Vance

[Immanuel Can]

Nipping back to the original theme:

A lot of people are saying that Trump is failing around like an incompetent fool, with only vague and shifting ideas of his war aims in Iran, and no credible plan for how to achieve anything or exit the conflict. A lot of people are saying that he's about to launch a ground attack that is quite likely to develop into an inconclusive and bloody forever-war.

I'm just wondering if anyone would care to argue against this position? I'd love to hear a more optimistic view, if one is possible.

Well, I'd be interested in knowing who the guy really is. Because we're definitely being told two stories:

1. He's an "incompetent," with "only vague and shifting ideas," "no credible plan," or as some have said, he "couldn't run a business," or "can't keep himself under control," etc. In other words, that he's a moron.

2. That he's a Machiavellian strategist, who aims to become "king" or "Hitler" by undermining democracy with sinister cunning, manipulating us into war, stealing oil, kidnapping and assassinating, conquering territory in collusion with "the military-industrial complex," ... In other words, he's an evil genius.

Which are we dealing with? It can't be both.

So maybe there's this much hope: that it isn't either one. It's something else. What else? Who knows; because the media are so focused on hating the guy at all costs that we can't find out. There are no impartial reporters in the major media anymore, or we can't find them among the various shills; and the stories they're all spinning don't add up.

[FlashDangerpants]

That dichotomy story is nonsense. Nobody has ever suspected Trump of possessing intellect, but nor does anyone consider him the architect of the whole Project 2025 scheme - that's the Heritage Foundation. Most of his other follies are largely pinned on Stephen Miller.

That's hardly new. George W Bush wasn't the mastermind of his administration, he was bossed around by Rove, Rumsfeld and Cheney. You never credited Biden with any agency at all and accused his "handlers" of doing everything.

[Immanuel Can]

That dichotomy story is nonsense. Nobody has ever suspected Trump of possessing intellect, but nor does anyone consider him the architect of the whole Project 2025 scheme - that's the Heritage Foundation. Most of his other follies are largely pinned on Stephen Miller.

That's hardly new. George W Bush wasn't the mastermind of his administration, he was bossed around by Rove, Rumsfeld and Cheney. You never credited Biden with any agency at all and accused his "handlers" of doing everything.

So you've never called him a "Hitler," and you don't think he's aiming to become a "King," and you don't think he's the one responsible for what's happening? It's other people? And he's just their victim?

Is that the story you're committed to?

[FlashDangerpants]

That dichotomy story is nonsense. Nobody has ever suspected Trump of possessing intellect, but nor does anyone consider him the architect of the whole Project 2025 scheme - that's the Heritage Foundation. Most of his other follies are largely pinned on Stephen Miller.

That's hardly new. George W Bush wasn't the mastermind of his administration, he was bossed around by Rove, Rumsfeld and Cheney. You never credited Biden with any agency at all and accused his "handlers" of doing everything.

So you've never called him a "Hitler," and you don't think he's aiming to become a "King," and you don't think he's the one responsible for what's happening? It's other people? And he's just their victim?

Is that the story you're committed to?

To quote that very wisest of men...

And now I wonder why you wanted to put those words in my mouth.

[Immanuel Can]

That dichotomy story is nonsense. Nobody has ever suspected Trump of possessing intellect, but nor does anyone consider him the architect of the whole Project 2025 scheme - that's the Heritage Foundation. Most of his other follies are largely pinned on Stephen Miller.

That's hardly new. George W Bush wasn't the mastermind of his administration, he was bossed around by Rove, Rumsfeld and Cheney. You never credited Biden with any agency at all and accused his "handlers" of doing everything.

So you've never called him a "Hitler," and you don't think he's aiming to become a "King," and you don't think he's the one responsible for what's happening? It's other people? And he's just their victim?

Is that the story you're committed to?

To quote that very wisest of men...

And now I wonder why you wanted to put those words in my mouth.

Well, it cannot be both: he can't be both a malevolent genius and a dork. So pick your horse and ride it.

[FlashDangerpants]

Well, it cannot be both: he can't be both a malevolent genius and a dork.

That dichotomy story is nonsense. Nobody has ever suspected Trump of possessing intellect, but nor does anyone consider him the architect of the whole Project 2025 scheme - that's the Heritage Foundation. Most of his other follies are largely pinned on Stephen Miller.

That's hardly new. George W Bush wasn't the mastermind of his administration, he was bossed around by Rove, Rumsfeld and Cheney. You never credited Biden with any agency at all and accused his "handlers" of doing everything.

[Immanuel Can]

Well, it cannot be both: he can't be both a malevolent genius and a dork.

That dichotomy story is nonsense.

Well, let's let others weigh in, and see if they agree with you. You have declared yourself to believe "Nobody has ever suspected Trump of possessing intellect," so a sinister mastermind, you don't think he is, obviously. He's just a bumbling "Cnut," ruled by his advisors and making foolish gestures about things he doesn't really understand. You've said so.

You're on the one side. Let's see if there's another.

[FlashDangerpants]

Well, it cannot be both: he can't be both a malevolent genius and a dork.

That dichotomy story is nonsense.

Well, let's let others weigh in, and see if they agree with you. You have declared yourself to believe "Nobody has ever suspected Trump of possessing intellect," so a sinister mastermind, you don't think he is, obviously. He's just a bumbling "Cnut," ruled by his advisors and making foolish gestures about things he doesn't really understand. You've said so.

You're on the one side. Let's see if there's another.

I didn't say he's ruled by his advisors, those are words you are putting in to my mouth.

That said, you aren't really making any case of your own. Is it your belief that Mister Trump is a diligent politician with a solid plan to pursue an acheivable goal in his dealings with Iran, and no as yet unannounced neurological degradation?

Can you reassure Rick that the leader of the free world is not just wildly improvising as the situation deteriorates, in line with his own faculties?

[Immanuel Can]

Is it your belief that Mister Trump is a diligent politician with a solid plan to pursue an acheivable goal in his dealings with Iran, and no as yet unannounced neurological degradation?

I don't have an opinion on that, because the media coverage is so...what's the word...dichotomous?

What I can see is that the story we're getting...or rather, the two opposite stories, contradict one another, so make no sense. What is true beyond all that, who can say? The conflicting arguments of the press merely obscure whatever is the case.

[phyllo]

Trump has been called a genius by Trump himself, the sycophants he gathers around him and state propaganda media Fox News. Nobody else.

He is a skilled con man. He knows how to promote himself. He knows how spin a good story that whips up his base supporters. He knows how to avoid responsibility and shift blame to others.

He has a lot of energy and works hard on the con, spin and self promotion.

His main interest is himself.

He knows little about economics, history or foreign policy. And has no interest in learning more.

He is arrogant and narcissistic. Characteristics which have become worse in his second term.

Mentally and physically he is deteriorating.

[FlashDangerpants]

Is it your belief that Mister Trump is a diligent politician with a solid plan to pursue an acheivable goal in his dealings with Iran, and no as yet unannounced neurological degradation?

I don't have an opinion on that

It must be so difficult for you to form one, given what a shy and retiring beast the Trump is. The quiet and enigmatic little mouse of a man, quite incapable of making himself heard, not that he would be so presumptuous as to try.

[Immanuel Can]

Is it your belief that Mister Trump is a diligent politician with a solid plan to pursue an acheivable goal in his dealings with Iran, and no as yet unannounced neurological degradation?

I don't have an opinion on that

It must be so difficult for you to form one, given what a shy and retiring beast the Trump is.

You don't know either, even though you imagine you do.

What you do know is there are two contradictory stories the opposition foists on the public. Whether either or neither is true...well, time will tell.

[FlashDangerpants]

I don't have an opinion on that

It must be so difficult for you to form one, given what a shy and retiring beast the Trump is.

You don't know either, even though you imagine you do.

What you do know is there are two contradictory stories the opposition foists on the public. Whether either or neither is true...well, time will tell.

That dichotomy story is nonsense. Nobody has ever suspected Trump of possessing intellect, but nor does anyone consider him the architect of the whole Project 2025 scheme - that's the Heritage Foundation. Most of his other follies are largely pinned on Stephen Miller.

That's hardly new. George W Bush wasn't the mastermind of his administration, he was bossed around by Rove, Rumsfeld and Cheney. You never credited Biden with any agency at all and accused his "handlers" of doing everything.

[Immanuel Can]

That dichotomy story is nonsense.

Everybody knows it's true. All they have to do is watch the news.

[FlashDangerpants]

Nipping back to the original theme:

A lot of people are saying that Trump is failing around like an incompetent fool, with only vague and shifting ideas of his war aims in Iran, and no credible plan for how to achieve anything or exit the conflict. A lot of people are saying that he's about to launch a ground attack that is quite likely to develop into an inconclusive and bloody forever-war.

I'm just wondering if anyone would care to argue against this position? I'd love to hear a more optimistic view, if one is possible.

Well, looks like that gauntlet is getting left lying on the ground.

Although I would point out that another thing Trump is legendary for is running away when something gets difficult, thus we have the whole TACO thing. An attempt to secure the straits by taking the enemy shore and holding it doesn't seem like something a guy notorious for chickening out would actually do. His only available play is to declare some sort of victory, get the F out of there, and then purge a couple of scapegoats, presumably Hegseth and Rubio.