Philosophy Now Forum

popeye1945 wrote: ↑Sun Mar 30, 2025 11:45 am The Quran is the only scripture that says apostasy is punishable by death. In other words, if you change your mind and wish to leave the faith, it is a death sentence.

ChatGPT: Does the Quran says that apostasy is punishable by death?

The Qur’an itself does not prescribe a worldly punishment for apostasy (leaving Islam). It acknowledges that some people may leave and return to faith but does not command any legal penalty, let alone death.

For example, Surah Al-Baqarah (2:256) states:

"There is no compulsion in religion. The right course has become clear from the wrong."

Similarly, Surah An-Nisa (4:137) mentions people who believe, then disbelieve, then believe again, without prescribing a worldly punishment:

"Indeed, those who have believed, then disbelieved, then believed, then disbelieved, and then increased in disbelief—Allah will not forgive them, nor will He guide them to a way."

Where Does the Death Penalty Idea Come From?

The idea that apostasy is punishable by death comes not from the Qur’an but from certain Hadiths (sayings attributed to Prophet Muhammad) and historical interpretations. Some Hadiths state that an apostate should be killed, but scholars debate their context. Many classical Islamic scholars linked apostasy with treason in a political sense, rather than personal belief.
Modern Perspectives

Today, many Muslim scholars and thinkers argue that apostasy is a matter between an individual and God, not the state. Countries differ in how they interpret this, with some enforcing penalties and others upholding freedom of belief.

ChatGPT: In which hadith does Prophet Muhammad say that apostates should be killed?


1. Hadith in Sahih al-Bukhari

"Whoever changes his religion, kill him."
(Sahih al-Bukhari, 3017, 6922)

This Hadith is brief and lacks context, which has led to different interpretations by scholars.

2. Hadith in Sunan Abu Dawood

"The blood of a Muslim who confesses that there is no god but Allah and that I am His Apostle is not lawful except in three cases:
(1) A life for a life,
(2) A married person who commits adultery,
(3) The one who abandons his religion and separates from the community."
(Sunan Abu Dawood, 4352; also found in Sahih Muslim, 1676)

This Hadith adds more detail by mentioning "separating from the community", which some scholars interpret as an act of treason rather than just personal apostasy.

I have personally always interpreted the guideline as mandating that deserters from the battlefield should be shot at dawn. As I see it, someone who "separates from the community" is to be understood as someone who abdicates from his obligations to a standing army engaged in battle.

popeye1945 wrote: ↑Sun Mar 30, 2025 11:45 am
https://www.skeptical-science.com/relig ... ses-quran/

The Quran is the only scripture that says apostasy is punishable by death. In other words, if you change your mind and wish to leave the faith, it is a death sentence.

You might want to check out Deuteronomy 13:6-11.

carlafeit wrote: ↑Sun Mar 30, 2025 5:36 pm

popeye1945 wrote: ↑Sun Mar 30, 2025 11:45 am
https://www.skeptical-science.com/relig ... ses-quran/

The Quran is the only scripture that says apostasy is punishable by death. In other words, if you change your mind and wish to leave the faith, it is a death sentence.

You might want to check out Deuteronomy 13:6-11.

Christians don't take it literally or carry it out (If it's there. I can't be bothered looking for it so I'll take your word for it).

carlafeit wrote: ↑Sun Mar 30, 2025 5:36 pm

popeye1945 wrote: ↑Sun Mar 30, 2025 11:45 am
https://www.skeptical-science.com/relig ... ses-quran/

The Quran is the only scripture that says apostasy is punishable by death. In other words, if you change your mind and wish to leave the faith, it is a death sentence.

You might want to check out Deuteronomy 13:6-11.

The Old Testament? So you are relying on Judaic text of the Torah to support a claim that Christ teachings (*actual Christianity) is someone equal or more violent that the Islamic Quran?

MorHamMad IS responsible for every word of that text written 666 years after Christ & stealing concepts from Judaic and Christian texts in an attempt to legitimatise his evil nonsense.

Just because so many in USA are brought up by bullshit weirdo "christian" cults, doesn't mean you have to look for faults in Christ - you turned your back on Him, got it..not interested in the Truth, just that weirdo US people create cults for some out of it was enough for you..


Back to ISLAM:

1. Marriage and sex with pre-menstrual girls (children) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WIsRJ3hiHpE
Introduction to Surah
65. At-Talâq

4. And those of your women as have passed the age of monthly courses, for them the 'Iddah (prescribed period), if you have doubts (about their periods), is three months, and for those who have no courses [(i.e. they are still immature) their 'Iddah (prescribed period) is three months likewise, except in case of death][] . And for those who are pregnant (whether they are divorced or their husbands are dead), their 'Iddah (prescribed period) is until they deliver (their burdens), and whosoever fears Allâh and keeps his duty to Him, He will make his matter easy for him.


(*as the creator of this very thread has shown agreement to, girls as young as 8 are permitted to be raped by Islamic men - that is HAPPENING RIGHT NOW because of MorHamMad)


2. Killing of non-believers
Surah 9:29: "Fight those who do not believe in Allah or in the Last Day and who do not consider unlawful what Allah and His Messenger have made unlawful and who do not adopt the religion of truth from those who were given the Scripture – [fight] until they give the jizyah [tax] willingly while they are humbled."

“Kill them [unbelievers] wherever you find them… And fight them until there is no more unbelief and worship is for Allah alone” (Quran 2:191-193).

“Strike off their heads and strike from them every fingertip” (Quran 8:12).

“Allah has purchased from the believers their lives and their properties; in exchange for that they will have Paradise. They fight in the cause of Allah, so they slay and are slain” (Quran 9:111).

“Truly Allah loves those who fight in His cause in battle array…” (Quran 61:4)

“The Messenger of Allah said: I have been commanded to fight against people till they testify that there is no god but Allah, and that Muhammad is the messenger of Allah” (Sahih Muslim 1:33).

Mohammed’s last words: 'Allah cursed the Jews and the Christians because they took the graves of their Prophets as places for praying."


3. Killing apostates
Bukhari[52:260] "...The Prophet said, 'If somebody (a Muslim) discards his religion, kill him.' "

Quran[4:89] "They wish that you should disbelieve as they disbelieve, and then you would be equal; therefore take not to yourselves friends of them, until they emigrate in the way of God; then, if they turn their backs, take them, and slay them wherever you find them; take not to yourselves any one of them as friend or helper."


4. Rape of captured women enemies
Qur’an 4:24 permits intercourse with women captured in jihad (holy war). The verse states: “And women already married, except those whom your right hands possess.” This implies that female captives can be taken as concubines or wives by Muslim men after they have been captured in battle.

carlafeit wrote: ↑Sun Mar 30, 2025 5:36 pm

popeye1945 wrote: ↑Sun Mar 30, 2025 11:45 am
https://www.skeptical-science.com/relig ... ses-quran/

The Quran is the only scripture that says apostasy is punishable by death. In other words, if you change your mind and wish to leave the faith, it is a death sentence.

You might want to check out Deuteronomy 13:6-11.

https://www.bing.com/search?pglt=299&q= ... SS&PC=ACTS

The difference is that both Judaism and Christianity ignore the more barbaric aspect of their holy scriptures today, while the Muslims are still in the seventh century, with the barbarity of those times. Death for apostasy and honor killings are part of their playlist of behaviours in the modern world.
The world, I believe, would be a much healthier place if religious insanity were called out instead of tiptoeing around.

popeye1945 wrote: ↑Mon Mar 31, 2025 12:19 am The difference is that both Judaism and Christianity ignore the more barbaric aspect of their holy scriptures today, while the Muslims are still in the seventh century, with the barbarity of those times. Death for apostasy and honor killings are part of their playlist of behaviours in the modern world.
The world, I believe, would be a much healthier place if religious insanity were called out instead of tiptoeing around.

In terms of biology, humanity has not changed since the 7th century. Furthermore, those earlier times were not barbaric.

In the meanwhile, the world is still a hostile place. It will probably always be. That is why you must always have effective weapons in place and maintain the resolve to ruthlessly use them.

A religion is something that must defend itself, just like anything else in existence.

The fact that potential adversaries are afraid of you, mostly means that you must be doing something right.

Better still, the adversary must always be made to understand that he either caves in, or else, that he will be made to cave in. You can leave it up to him to make that choice.

It is exactly the fact that the adversary understands that you will not hesitate to ruthlessly wage war, that is instrumental in keeping the peace. In that sense, Islam is certainly the religion of peace. Any complaint about Islam's resolve to defend itself can only be understood as a confirmation of its excellent approach to the matter.

godelian wrote: ↑Mon Mar 31, 2025 1:03 am

popeye1945 wrote: ↑Mon Mar 31, 2025 12:19 am The difference is that both Judaism and Christianity ignore the more barbaric aspect of their holy scriptures today, while the Muslims are still in the seventh century, with the barbarity of those times. Death for apostasy and honor killings are part of their playlist of behaviours in the modern world.
The world, I believe, would be a much healthier place if religious insanity were called out instead of tiptoeing around.

In terms of biology, humanity has not changed since the 7th century. Furthermore, those earlier times were not barbaric.

In the meanwhile, the world is still a hostile place. It will probably always be. That is why you must always have effective weapons in place and maintain the resolve to ruthlessly use them.

A religion is something that must defend itself, just like anything else in existence.

The fact that potential adversaries are afraid of you, mostly means that you must be doing something right.

Better still, the adversary must always be made to understand that he either caves in, or else, that he will be made to cave in. You can leave it up to him to make that choice.

It is exactly the fact that the adversary understands that you will not hesitate to ruthlessly wage war, that is instrumental in keeping the peace. In that sense, Islam is certainly the religion of peace. Any complaint about Islam's resolve to defend itself can only be understood as a confirmation of its excellent approach to the matter.

How truly depraved! You are a Muslim, yes?

popeye1945 wrote: ↑Mon Mar 31, 2025 8:45 pm

godelian wrote: ↑Mon Mar 31, 2025 1:03 am

popeye1945 wrote: ↑Mon Mar 31, 2025 12:19 am The difference is that both Judaism and Christianity ignore the more barbaric aspect of their holy scriptures today, while the Muslims are still in the seventh century, with the barbarity of those times. Death for apostasy and honor killings are part of their playlist of behaviours in the modern world.
The world, I believe, would be a much healthier place if religious insanity were called out instead of tiptoeing around.

In terms of biology, humanity has not changed since the 7th century. Furthermore, those earlier times were not barbaric.

In the meanwhile, the world is still a hostile place. It will probably always be. That is why you must always have effective weapons in place and maintain the resolve to ruthlessly use them.

A religion is something that must defend itself, just like anything else in existence.

The fact that potential adversaries are afraid of you, mostly means that you must be doing something right.

Better still, the adversary must always be made to understand that he either caves in, or else, that he will be made to cave in. You can leave it up to him to make that choice.

It is exactly the fact that the adversary understands that you will not hesitate to ruthlessly wage war, that is instrumental in keeping the peace. In that sense, Islam is certainly the religion of peace. Any complaint about Islam's resolve to defend itself can only be understood as a confirmation of its excellent approach to the matter.

How truly depraved! You are a Muslim, yes?

How truly imbecile! You are a born idiot, yes?

godelian wrote: ↑Mon Mar 31, 2025 8:51 pm

popeye1945 wrote: ↑Mon Mar 31, 2025 8:45 pm

godelian wrote: ↑Mon Mar 31, 2025 1:03 am
In terms of biology, humanity has not changed since the 7th century. Furthermore, those earlier times were not barbaric.

In the meanwhile, the world is still a hostile place. It will probably always be. That is why you must always have effective weapons in place and maintain the resolve to ruthlessly use them.

A religion is something that must defend itself, just like anything else in existence.

The fact that potential adversaries are afraid of you, mostly means that you must be doing something right.

Better still, the adversary must always be made to understand that he either caves in, or else, that he will be made to cave in. You can leave it up to him to make that choice.

It is exactly the fact that the adversary understands that you will not hesitate to ruthlessly wage war, that is instrumental in keeping the peace. In that sense, Islam is certainly the religion of peace. Any complaint about Islam's resolve to defend itself can only be understood as a confirmation of its excellent approach to the matter.

How truly depraved! You are a Muslim, yes?

How truly imbecile! You are a born idiot, yes?

LOL!! or about to join----lol!!

To the OP. So it is. Giving the greatest possible good will to the story, that it's creators were accurate in describing a real, historical, natural Jesus, then he had to bring about his own extremely violent torture and death in order to propitiate his God's self-righteous violence for his followers. All religion in the name of the Abrahamic God is as inherently violent, disordered, full of arbitrary double standards, exceptionalism, moral chaos, as their object.

Martin Peter Clarke wrote: ↑Mon Jun 23, 2025 8:22 am To the OP. So it is. Giving the greatest possible good will to the story, that it's creators were accurate in describing a real, historical, natural Jesus, then he had to bring about his own extremely violent torture and death in order to propitiate his God's self-righteous violence for his followers. All religion in the name of the Abrahamic God is as inherently violent, disordered, full of arbitrary double standards, exceptionalism, moral chaos, as their object.

Go ahead, list all of Christ's statements that insist humans be violent towards each other.

They all have different heat regime requirements you see.

All the desert religions had warrior gods, and violence was the norm, not the exception. In the present, most believers have learned to ignore scriptures more barbaric parts, except for the Muslim faith, their focus still seems to be in the seventh century.

popeye1945 wrote: ↑Sun Jul 06, 2025 10:41 am All the desert religions had warrior gods, and violence was the norm, not the exception. In the present, most believers have learned to ignore scriptures more barbaric parts, except for the Muslim faith, their focus still seems to be in the seventh century.

All respect is ultimately always based on the fear for reprisals. So, if you fear reprisals, it means that Islam must indeed be doing something right.

godelian wrote: ↑Sun Jul 06, 2025 12:22 pm

popeye1945 wrote: ↑Sun Jul 06, 2025 10:41 am All the desert religions had warrior gods, and violence was the norm, not the exception. In the present, most believers have learned to ignore scriptures more barbaric parts, except for the Muslim faith, their focus still seems to be in the seventh century.

All respect is ultimately always based on the fear for reprisals. So, if you fear reprisals, it means that Islam must indeed be doing something right.

Sounds like a truly psychopathic reply, are you serious here? You're a Muslim, ok, I get it, this is normal for you.