Iwannaplato wrote: ↑Sun Dec 31, 2023 7:03 am
FlashDangerpants wrote: ↑Sun Dec 31, 2023 2:36 am
Wizard22 wrote: ↑Sat Dec 30, 2023 12:14 pm
Your quote says "
deductive arguments". Arguments with hypotheticals can be sound and invalid, because validity is dependent on how real a hypothetical can be.
A proveable argument is valid. An unproveable argument is invalid.
Why did you underline the word
deductive, if you are segueing into an irrelevant discsussion about hypotheticals?
Truly unbelievable where people dig in to not admit anything.
I understand if someone digs in and refuses to admit something that challenges the base of their worldview. Hell, it might even be healthy to do this for a while so the self can prepare for reorganization.
But Wizard is digging in around his making an incorrect statement about valid vs. sound.
And all in the name of weirdly justifying his presented certainty that you must be a Jew.
It's not the same as him admitting he's been anti-semitic here.
It's like there is no prioritization. It seems like that.
It seems like any admission means that the whole house crumbles. Even minor errors in terminology.
I do wonder about the many loons we have here who view every sentence they write as some sort of death before dishonour hill to die on. I've seen him try to bully somebody that English is a branch of Latin not German because of the alphabet we use (which closely resembles that used in Germany to my untrained eye) so it goes without saying that he will not agree that he has made a simple and very easily reversible error with the two concepts.
But we saw the same thing in Advocate's Scotsman thread. And if you ever catch IC making a small error that could be fixed with a simple ooops, I challenge you to find one where that was his reaction. So I find myself wondering if there is much of a difference between these people. I posit that there is, I think that for some of these people, the poisonous impulse to double down on a stupid position comes from vanity, while for others it is the sin of pride that corrupts.
The vanity of Narcissus in legend, always gazing only upon his own reflection has obviously given us the name for a vanity based condition that afflicts many, and some of them are among us at PN. So at risk of reading too much into that name, I would say that we can assign for Advocate at least a position at the far Vanity end of the spectrum here. He simply isn't capable of reviewing the evidence of any transaction and determining that his own position had been erroneous because that self image he stares at tells him he's perfect and mistake free, so he can't really understand you.
On the other hand, while it's true that Immanuel Can has got plenty of ego, the reason why he has about 20 extra argument fakeout tricks that Advocate doesn't is that he uses them when he has realised he's under water but his tragic pride cannot cope. Last year he confidently asserted that Nancy Pelosi had acheived impossible investment growth from 33 millions of dollars to 144 mil. Unfortunately that was since 2008 so he doesn't understand what the word "compound" means in this sort of matter, and of course had Pelosi put that money in an unmanaged S&P 500 tracker fund in 2008, she would have made the same level of gains. If we weigh this against his claim that "You will not find a single legal investment firm that can yield results even a fraction that good" you can see that any sane person would have given up the point right away, if you have to retain the pride you can say something about not realising how many years it had been or what not. But mister Can, when in a hole, instinctively reaches for his Pride spade, so he stuck to his reverse firing guns. He knew he was wrong straight away, but he particularly dislikes finding that out from me, I always know he will respond with overpride so sometimes I childishly begin the teasing for that right away. So it was like pulling teeth to make him admit a very small error. Shame really, you should see how rich she would have been if she put that money in Tesla stock. I never got to use that one.
So I posit that the extreme vanity end of the spectrum holds those who cannot understand they are ever mistaken due to a self image of perfection; While the extreme pride end of it holds people who are quite capable of finding out they have erred, but entirely unable to cope with that information. I don't actually think anyone occupies the exclusive extreme ends of this thing, IC may be the most poisonously overproud person I can think of, but he has a bit of vanity to go with it, I am not blinding myself to that in pursuit of my calorie free little pop-psych theory.
In this matter, I believe GrandWizzard22 occupies the middle ground between those leviathan. Sadly this apparent balance doesn't help him at all, and he's just as badly afflicted as the others. He seems to be very highly resistant to the idea that he could ever make a mistake, causing him to resemble Handjob7 and Advocate in that regard, but those guys never change their story because their vanity overwhelms their ability to forsee any need. At the other end, IC goes through 7 stages of grief when he's on a sinking ship, and that's preobably why he gives you 7 Herculean challenges to complete before he will grudgingly say that he was wrong about something but totally never cared.
Gadalf the KKK seems sort of convinced he is effortlessly superior like Advocate, but he's too insecure about it, Advocate just knows he is the greatest ever and it irks him that lessers cannot see it too. With Whizzy, it's more complicated than that. I've seen him claim to have some sort of relationship with the divine and to receive inspiration from the big guy upstairs, but that seems to be intermittent and he's fuzzy on the details, so perhaps it's episodic. But some degree of heightened self image definitely leads him to overcommit to some wild shit that cannot possibly work for him. No matter what insane self-contradictory irrelevant gobledygook he's written on any matter, his vanity tells him he can totally bullshit his way out of any tricky position, the need for which comes from the excess of pride that won't allow him to use the word oops in situations where it is obviously the right choice for the sane.
