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Re: Morality is Objective
Posted: Thu Sep 21, 2023 9:09 am
by Skepdick
Dontaskme wrote: ↑Thu Sep 21, 2023 9:08 am
Skepdick wrote: ↑Thu Sep 21, 2023 8:48 am
Dontaskme wrote: ↑Thu Sep 21, 2023 8:43 am
It has to be circular...especially whenever the ''WHY'' question pops us, because a question can only pop up when there is a sense of separation, when there is the sense there is something here that knows, separate from the known there. Separation only makes sense in the context of here and there.
But this sense of separation is an illusion, although, the illusion is needed to be real and true, for knowledge and language to be possible of making sense. And that is why there can only be circular reasoning, because the illusory real entity, aka the real fictional character, by asking ''WHY'' is always an attempt to take a peek up it's own skirt, so to speak, which is impossible, that's like trying to jump over your own shadow to get in front of yourself.
That's the true meaning of circular reasoning. We're like dogs chasing our tails, when it comes to philosophy, it's only when we catch our tail, that philosophy is seen for the real fictional story that it is.
So you are pre-supposing the supernatural existence of evil ?!?!?
Wow, you believe in the Devil? What's the pejorative word for people like that? I don't know.
There is belief in the devil, yes.
There is belief in the presence of evil, yes.
There is belief there are people expressing themselves in a pejorative sense, yes.
There is the sense that assumptions are being made by people both imposing and pre-supposing ideas onto what is essentially an unknowable reality, as being known, and existing for real, yes.
But so what?
Nothing.
If reality is unknowable then knowledge is impossible.
Knowledge is ignorance.
Truth is Falsehood.
War is Peace.
Good is Evil.
You are Me
I am you.
Everything is nothing.
Enjoy the hell you have found yourself in.
Re: Morality is Objective
Posted: Thu Sep 21, 2023 9:12 am
by Dontaskme
Skepdick wrote: ↑Thu Sep 21, 2023 9:09 am
Enjoy the hell you have found yourself in.
No one is ever forced to believe belief.
Where does that leave the belief in hell?
Re: Morality is Objective
Posted: Thu Sep 21, 2023 9:13 am
by Skepdick
Dontaskme wrote: ↑Thu Sep 21, 2023 9:12 am
Skepdick wrote: ↑Thu Sep 21, 2023 9:09 am
Enjoy the hell you have found yourself in.
No one is ever forced to believe belief.
Where does that leave the belief in hell?
Yes.... If you don't believe in belief you are definitely in hell.
Negate the negation.
Doubt the doubt.
Re: Morality is Objective
Posted: Thu Sep 21, 2023 9:19 am
by Dontaskme
Skepdick wrote: ↑Thu Sep 21, 2023 9:13 am
Yes.... If you don't believe in belief you are definitely in hell.
I don't know what you mean by that.
If I don't believe in the belief hell, then where is hell.
I can understand that there is possible a belief in hell, but knowing that belief is possible, does not have to be my actual direct experience, if I don't believe the belief, when it is already known that all belief is just a fictional idea, artificially imposed upon this immediate unknowing reality as if real.
Re: Morality is Objective
Posted: Thu Sep 21, 2023 9:24 am
by Skepdick
Dontaskme wrote: ↑Thu Sep 21, 2023 9:19 am
If I don't believe in the belief hell, then where is hell.
Nowhere and everywhere.
Never, now and forever.
Its exact location is forever unknown. Because you
believe knowledge is impossible.
So you can't possibly know where hell is for that would contradict your belif in the impossibility of knowledge.
But it's there. Exactly where you are.
And now you know. The impossible has happened.
Take that miracle and run with it
Just don't tell Socrates that you have knowledge - he is a dick.
Re: Morality is Objective
Posted: Thu Sep 21, 2023 9:54 am
by Skepdick
Dontaskme wrote: ↑Thu Sep 21, 2023 9:00 am
We must already have an answer to a question, else the entire concept of question is unknowable and meaningless, or could never be answered. The action of asking a question to be possible, must mean that we already have the answer.
Yes. We know.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meno
Re: Morality is Objective
Posted: Thu Sep 21, 2023 10:43 am
by Dontaskme
Skepdick wrote: ↑Thu Sep 21, 2023 9:24 am
Dontaskme wrote: ↑Thu Sep 21, 2023 9:19 am
If I don't believe in the belief hell, then where is hell.
Nowhere and everywhere.
Never, now and forever.
Yes, I agree, hell is nowhere and everywhere, never, now and forever. Hell is in the belief that I hold herenow, now here. I even hold the non-belief of the belief I hold.
But so what?
Skepdick wrote: ↑Thu Sep 21, 2023 9:24 amIts exact location is forever unknown. Because you
believe knowledge is impossible.
Have I stated that knowledge is impossible?
If so, where have I stated it? I don't think I have ever stated that knowledge is impossible. I have stated that knowledge can only point to the illusory nature of reality, not that knowledge is impossible.
Re: Morality is Objective
Posted: Thu Sep 21, 2023 10:45 am
by Skepdick
Dontaskme wrote: ↑Thu Sep 21, 2023 10:43 am
Skepdick wrote: ↑Thu Sep 21, 2023 9:24 am
Dontaskme wrote: ↑Thu Sep 21, 2023 9:19 am
If I don't believe in the belief hell, then where is hell.
Nowhere and everywhere.
Never, now and forever.
Yes, I agree, hell is nowhere and everywhere, never, now and forever. Hell is in the belief that I hold herenow, now here. I even hold the non-belief of the belief I hold.
But so what?
Skepdick wrote: ↑Thu Sep 21, 2023 9:24 amIts exact location is forever unknown. Because you
believe knowledge is impossible.
Have I stated that knowledge is impossible?
If so, where have I stated it? I don't think I have ever stated that knowledge is impossible. I have stated that knowledge can only point to the illusory nature of reality, not that knowledge is impossible.
You are doing what philosophers do best.
DIther and wither the conversation away from any point with a millio nquestions.
Go away, entropy. I have no use for you.
Re: Morality is Objective
Posted: Thu Sep 21, 2023 10:45 am
by Dontaskme
Skepdick wrote: ↑Thu Sep 21, 2023 9:54 am
Dontaskme wrote: ↑Thu Sep 21, 2023 9:00 am
We must already have an answer to a question, else the entire concept of question is unknowable and meaningless, or could never be answered. The action of asking a question to be possible, must mean that we already have the answer.
Yes. We know.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meno
Yes, there is here now, nowhere, a sense of knowing, which can be known as the sense of a person who knows there is knowing, but so what?
Re: Morality is Objective
Posted: Thu Sep 21, 2023 10:47 am
by Dontaskme
Skepdick wrote: ↑Thu Sep 21, 2023 10:45 am
Dontaskme wrote: ↑Thu Sep 21, 2023 10:43 am
Skepdick wrote: ↑Thu Sep 21, 2023 9:24 am
Nowhere and everywhere.
Never, now and forever.
Yes, I agree, hell is nowhere and everywhere, never, now and forever. Hell is in the belief that I hold herenow, now here. I even hold the non-belief of the belief I hold.
But so what?
Skepdick wrote: ↑Thu Sep 21, 2023 9:24 amIts exact location is forever unknown. Because you
believe knowledge is impossible.
Have I stated that knowledge is impossible?
If so, where have I stated it? I don't think I have ever stated that knowledge is impossible. I have stated that knowledge can only point to the illusory nature of reality, not that knowledge is impossible.
You are doing what philosophers do best.
DIther and wither the conversation away from any point with a millio nquestions.
Go away, entropy. I have no use for you.
Who have you got use for, can you name someone? are they a philosopher, or a non-philosopher appearing to philosophize?
Re: Morality is Objective
Posted: Thu Sep 21, 2023 10:51 am
by Dontaskme
Skepdick wrote: ↑Thu Sep 21, 2023 10:45 am
I have no use for you.
I have use for you now, because you have stated that I said knowledge was impossible. I need you to quote the exact words where I wrote knowledge was impossible, with my name on it as proof.
If you can't back up what you have claimed, then why say that I said that?.... I didn't say it.
Re: Morality is Objective
Posted: Thu Sep 21, 2023 10:54 am
by Dontaskme
Skepdick wrote: ↑Thu Sep 21, 2023 10:45 am
You are doing what philosophers do best.
DIther and wither the conversation away from any point with a millio nquestions.
Go away, entropy. I have no use for you.
I haven't asked a million questions. I've only beeen talking to you for a short time this morning.
Do you ever ask a question? What's up with asking questions anyway?
Re: Morality is Objective
Posted: Thu Sep 21, 2023 10:55 am
by Skepdick
Dontaskme wrote: ↑Thu Sep 21, 2023 10:51 am
Skepdick wrote: ↑Thu Sep 21, 2023 10:45 am
I have no use for you.
I have use for you now, because you have stated that I said knowledge was impossible. I need you to quote the exact words where I wrote knowledge was impossible, with my name on it as proof.
If you can't back up what you have claimed, then why say that I said that?.... I didn't say it.
Read to understand. I didn't say you said anything. I said you BELIEVE something. I made a claim about YOUR beliefs. Like I am a mind reader or something.
Your rejecion of the belief in belief (when amplified to is maximum) amounts to the disbelief in the possibility of knowledge. Maximum entropy/doubt is absence of knowledge.
Irrespective of what you think.
Re: Morality is Objective
Posted: Thu Sep 21, 2023 11:03 am
by Dontaskme
Skepdick wrote: ↑Thu Sep 21, 2023 10:55 am
Dontaskme wrote: ↑Thu Sep 21, 2023 10:51 am
Skepdick wrote: ↑Thu Sep 21, 2023 10:45 am
I have no use for you.
I have use for you now, because you have stated that I said knowledge was impossible. I need you to quote the exact words where I wrote knowledge was impossible, with my name on it as proof.
If you can't back up what you have claimed, then why say that I said that?.... I didn't say it.
Read to understand. I didn't say you said anything. I said you BELIEVE something. I made a claim about YOUR beliefs. Like I am a mind reader or something.
Your rejecion of the belief in belief (when amplified to is maximum) amounts to the disbelief in the possibility of knowledge.
Irrespective of what you think.
Ok, you said you believe I think knowledge is impossible.
But your belief is wrong, I believe knowledge is possible, because I'm actually using knowledge right now to make that possiblity of knowledge to be possible. I must already know knowledge is possible.
I agree, there is no way to negate that knowledge exists.
But so what?
Re: Morality is Objective
Posted: Thu Sep 21, 2023 11:07 am
by Dontaskme
Skepdick wrote: ↑Thu Sep 21, 2023 10:55 am
Your rejecion of the belief in belief (when amplified to is maximum) amounts to the disbelief in the possibility of knowledge. Maximum entropy/doubt is absence of knowledge.
Irrespective of what you think.
You cannot have absence of knowledge, because knowledge is needed to know you are holding to a belief in something, and even the non-belief in the belief you are holding still requires a knowledge that there is such a thing known as a non-belief of a belief..